The Wiccan Laws Outdated? (no offence intended)

[Wolf*]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the wiccan laws seem to have been for a time of extreme persicution. It just occurs to me that many of these laws seem out-dated and does not really fit with the modern day. I mean no offence to Wiccans devoted to these laws, it is just my opinion. I want to know what you all think as well.

[waterglyph]

There are a lot of things I don't agree with concerning the Wiccan Laws (In this case I'm reffering to the "Old Laws" by Gardener, also called the 161 Laws.) they're full of fanciful parnoia and sexism among other things.

I've studied and respect the place that Laws have in Wiccan history (however brief that may be), but many don't apply to me as a contemporary solitary. Like many parts of the Wiccan religion there is a lot of room for personal adaptation, so I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything by not adopting all of the Laws.

However, I feel like by completely abandoning all of the "classical" works and nature of Wicca because you meerly don't like them is another matter. If you just drop whatever you please, you don't have Wicca anymore - you have fluffybunnyism. And that's exactly what's happening.

I could go on for pages and pages about the "Wiccans" who honestly have no idea what the heck they're doing, but I won't. *lol*

I guess to sum up there should be a balance between reasonable preservation of some Wiccan tradations and understanding when archic dogma should be laid to rest...

[moon*beam]

What is the laws i dont know any of them the only one i know is the 3 fold one

[Orion]

These Laws: http://wicca.timerift.net/laws/161.html
Wicca has a lot more to it then just the three fold, lol

[moon*beam]

Ya i know that its just i only understand the 3 fold law

[waterdweller]

JUST READ THE 161 LAWS
I MUST ADMIT I FOUND IT TO BE WRITTEN IN FEAR OF PERSECUSION.
ALTHOUGH SOME OF IT IS STILL VALID, LIKE MOST RELIGIONS TODAY IT IS DUE A REFORMATION.
IT DOES NOT MAKE KNOWN THE INPORTANCE OF LOOKING AFTER THE EARTH ON WHICH WE HAVE THE HONOUR TO LIVE ON AND LOOK AFTER. newangel

WATER

[Sara]

I guess it shouldn't be forgotten that Wicca was created (or at least the creation started) while it was still illegal to even practise any form of witchcraft in the UK. Perhaps that and the Burning Times together made it necessary to remember that some secrecy will do us no harm.. Even though the reality of the Burning Times should not be forgotten in the sense that that time wasn't hell just for witches but for all those women and men who were not liked in their neighborhood.

161 laws, based on Gardner's Old Laws, do make some sense if not taken literally. They might not be perfectly up to date, but they do hold some truth. Even in these days they should remind us that it has not always been safe to walk proud and that in some cases it might not be wise even today.

[moon*beam]

I live and the uk and people still get made fun of if you tell them what you are.

[Orion]

Anyone can get made fun of for being anything. Typically it involves the need for a feeling of superiority in insecure individuals, . I make fun of everybody for everything, and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside

[Fox Flame*]

Even though I'm not Wiccan, I've seen some real Traditional Wiccans get pissed when someone thinks they can change up the laws of Wicca.

I personally, think that some of them should be upheld, such as practices like the Great Rite, and the basic philosophies around the HP and HPS (5 fold kiss, powers given to HPS from HP, etc.)

The Trads might tell someone they HAVE to be initiated into a coven (if not in the Wiccan Laws, then in Gardner's books) and I could see why they would, because a) that increases the accuracy of info given to the student (in good, GENIUNE Wiccan covens) and b) so Wiccan practitioners can perform any ceremonial magic in a group correctly. Many would argue this, solitary practioners mostly, but really, I don't see the gripe. Maybe it's me, but I would want to take it slow. If I practiced Wicca, I'd get the education and spiritual part down first, without calling myself Wiccan, then, when I'm initiated, call myself Wiccan. What's in a name?

I just make it easier on myself now by not really joining a particular Pagan tradition yet, just to let it find me.

Admitted, the secrecy connotation to the Wiccan laws seem weird, but given the time they were written, are understandable. It really just come down to what you can "customize" without stripping the Wiccan tradition.

[Dawn Faerie]

I am a Wiccan, and i follow the law Harm None. I made up some other laws in my book of shadows which i think i should follow in this lifetime. I haven't read all 161 laws, but i once read a short summary of them. Wicca is about 50 years old (correct me if i'm being inacurate here, please) and, although it may be hard to beleive, racism and sexism were commonplace in those times.
I once heard someone say, "Always remember the water willow, and let it remind you that that which remains changeless with outlive its spirit but that which evolves and weaves with the wind will live on for centuries."

[celticwave]

You'll find most religous laws will be pretty outdated, look at catholicism for example. it's just because all these religions were created so long ago, that anyone who really stuck to them wouldn't be able to function in the modern world. You'll find that now-days most wiccan books have tried to cut them down to the relevant laws today, just the whole no interfering with free will, threefold things.

Elyse