Is This True?

[SingingCanyon]

I was looking into Wicca on another site and I read something rather strange, and different then what I was taught.

"If you're not in a legitimate coven that can trace their initiatory lineage (trained lineage, not blood) back to the founder of the religion, Gerald Gardner then you're not a Wiccan.

If you're not at least 18 years of age, you're not a Wiccan."

I don't believe that this is true, but I just want to be sure. Someone replied with this:

"There are several traditions of Wicca. However, the thing that makes them all Wiccan is that they preserve the core beliefs and practices of the religion. Some of those core beliefs and practices include, cross-gender initiation through a sexual ritual (for this reason, a person must be 18 years old or older before they can be initiated into Wicca), practicing within a coven (there is no such thing as "solitary Wicca", if a person claims to be a solitary Wiccan then they are not Wiccan) and that inner-court practices are held oath-bound and secret."

I'm really confused by this information. I've been a "Solitary Wiccan" since I first became one and have no way of changing that fact. Does that mean I'm not a Wiccan?
I personally don't think so, but what do you think about the matter?

[Tasariel]

A lot of people who operate in covens believe that there is a definable and traceable line back to the "original" witches. If you aren't one of the "generations" of these witches, then you aren't respected in the craft, and often aren't considered a witch, or Wiccan in this case.

Essentially, they're being elitists. They think they're BETTER, because they can trace their line such and such a number of generations back and they know all the super-duper-top-secrets of their coven so it's so much more special.

Do not believe that you have to be initiated by anyone. You can initiate yourself, for heaven's sake. Only the God and Goddess can make the decision of who to accept as their followers. And I'm sure that if you choose to follow them, I don't see any reason why they would turn you away.

There are a number of respectable Witches who have supported the idea of solitary witchcraft and have even written books on the subject. In particular I'm thinking of Scott Cunningham, and even though her respectability is contested, Silver Ravenwolf.

Don't let anyone make you feel inferior because you aren't in a coven, and you don't know all the secrets, and you aren't Gardner's second great great great grandcousin twice removed on his mother's side. That stuff is so unnecessary and pointless. It's all for show and reputation. Your intent and YOUR dedication to Wicca is what makes you Wiccan. Not your family, not your coven, not your age. Just you and your dedication to the God and Goddess.

If you remember that, and don't let people who try to make you feel inferior bother you, you'll be doing just fine and I think the God and Goddess will appreciate your service just as much as any one of these hoity-toity secret-toting coven-goers.

Not that covens are all bad. I just don't like it when people try to say that they're the only ones who are this special just because they're part of this certain special group. Your life is your life. They can't tell you are or aren't.

Just as a P.S. A sexual initiation? Yuck! I wouldn't want to have anything to do with someone sexually that I'm not in a relationship with just because it's the 'thing to do' to be initiated. I'd probably quit immediately if that were required anyway. So they aren't all so perfect, themselves. (just a sidenote lol)

[SingingCanyon]

A lot of people who operate in covens believe that there is a definable and traceable line back to the "original" witches. If you aren't one of the "generations" of these witches, then you aren't respected in the craft, and often aren't considered a witch, or Wiccan in this case.

Essentially, they're being elitists. They think they're BETTER, because they can trace their line such and such a number of generations back and they know all the super-duper-top-secrets of their coven so it's so much more special.

Do not believe that you have to be initiated by anyone. You can initiate yourself, for heaven's sake. Only the God and Goddess can make the decision of who to accept as their followers. And I'm sure that if you choose to follow them, I don't see any reason why they would turn you away.

There are a number of respectable Witches who have supported the idea of solitary witchcraft and have even written books on the subject. In particular I'm thinking of Scott Cunningham, and even though her respectability is contested, Silver Ravenwolf.

Don't let anyone make you feel inferior because you aren't in a coven, and you don't know all the secrets, and you aren't Gardner's second great great great grandcousin twice removed on his mother's side. That stuff is so unnecessary and pointless. It's all for show and reputation. Your intent and YOUR dedication to Wicca is what makes you Wiccan. Not your family, not your coven, not your age. Just you and your dedication to the God and Goddess.

If you remember that, and don't let people who try to make you feel inferior bother you, you'll be doing just fine and I think the God and Goddess will appreciate your service just as much as any one of these hoity-toity secret-toting coven-goers.

Not that covens are all bad. I just don't like it when people try to say that they're the only ones who are this special just because they're part of this certain special group. Your life is your life. They can't tell you are or aren't.

Just as a P.S. A sexual initiation? Yuck! I wouldn't want to have anything to do with someone sexually that I'm not in a relationship with just because it's the 'thing to do' to be initiated. I'd probably quit immediately if that were required anyway. So they aren't all so perfect, themselves. (just a sidenote lol)

Thank you very much. I have read a few books by Silver Ravenwolf and one By Cunningham. And If I'm not mistaken Cunningham was a Gardnien or whatever the Wicca based off of Gardner was.

It was pretty irritating though, that when I tried to explain that I had read a lot of books by various authors that don't have the same view as them they told me that those authors obviously didn't know what they were talking about. If they didn't know what they were talking about then there wouldn't be that many books with that view now would there?

Yeah, sexual initiation, pretty gross. I don't think that is necessary EVER.

[Sammy]

I think that is a load of........rose petals? xD (the only place where I haven't cussed at yet and I don't intend to start) but jocking aside, I don't believe any of that.
You don't need to be taught by someone who was taught by someone who was taught by Gardner.....now that just sound ridiculous, you don't even need to be taught, you can teach yourself, but it is true that having a mentor or a teacher can help you on your journey. You don't need to be 18 years old to be a Wiccan, you can be any age because to put an age restriction on religion and a way of life is just silly.
I have never heard of anyone go trough a sex initiation or whatever, and there are a lot of solitary Wiccans out there, I am one. Not everyone has a chance to be a part of a coven and who says you can't be a Wiccan just because you aren't a part of a coven is wrong, what matters is what you believe in not who you know. To say that these are the reasons you are not a Wiccan is the same as saying that a glove is not a glove if it doesn't fit you, it's ridiculous.

I'm not saying I have all the answers but I know what I believe.

[Tasariel]

Hahaha! Rose petals? I love it.

But yea, I'm pretty sure Cunningham not only studied Gardnerian Wicca, but was a member of a Gardnerian Coven (feel free to correct me if that's wrong). So I don't think he has "no idea" what he's talking about.

I think the bottom line is that no one else has the right to dictate what you are or aren't, or what you should or shouldn't believe. You believe what's right for you, and you are what you believe you are. I mean, within reason of course. You aren't a bluebird just because you believe it... Or are you?
I just mean that your beliefs are your own, and only the God and Goddess can in any way govern them.

[Sammy]

Hehe yep, I don't want my bad habbit of cussing to spread to here xD

I agree with what you said, I think he does know a lot bout Wicca but the things metnioned here I dissagree with completely. No, no I'm not a bluebird.......I'm a pelican.

[greenvixen]

i believe that wicca is the oldest religion older that their founder or older than Gerald Gardner... so if they claim that.... so how about those wiccan who lived hundred years ago who are working solo and not a part of any coven... or maybe at that time there were no covens yet... as about the secrets of wiccan that we didnt know because we are not part of any covens... i believe it is also edited like the Christian Bible... I am a Christian witch ... but i dont believe some of what is written in the bible coz i know that it is already edited now a days in order to hide secrets from the past.... same goes in joining a coven, how should i know that the knowledge that i will be getting from them is authentic and no secrets untold... i prefer to work solo coz... i am in control on my own belief my own decision my own truth ... after all "To be a witch is to be truly free"....

[Starwitch]

I'd strongly advise witches to avoid any group that claims they have some special status above others. They do this for psychological reasons - they want you to feel privileged to be asked to join them. That way, when they command you to perform sexual favors for the "priest", you'll feel obliged... honored even, to do what he asks. When the truth is, you have no other choice if you want to be a member of their super-special, privileged/lineaged coven (which is really just a group of people who all worship one man and perform sexual favors for him, much like a Warren Jeffs/FLDS-type situation.)

What I'm saying is, those kinds of groups are cults. They prey on insecure, vulnerable people who aren't capable of thinking for themselves and who need others to tell them how to perform rituals (nekkid) and how to practice their religion (sexually, of course. Isn't that the most effective way to raise energy? )

I found this online http://nmrjournal.com/zine/archive/issues/7/628.htm

Apparently, Scott Cunningham wrote that when he refers to himself as a "Solitary Wiccan", it's sort of a misnomer since a Wiccan is never really "solitary" because they are always with the God and Goddess. So it looks like he's just playing a verbal semantics game when he says "there's no such thing as a solitary Wiccan." YES, you can be solitary, as in "I practice alone, not with a coven." The whole article is pretty silly, if you ask me.

But there are certain Wiccan traditions who believe that you must be in a coven to call yourself Wiccan (of course that makes them feel superior since they're in a coven.) But they'll give up that idea soon enough, now there are far more solitary Wiccans than ones who have joined covens. It's like saying you can't be a Christian if you don't join the Catholic Church. It's all just a matter of opinion.

If you believed everything Gerald Gardner said was true, then I suppose you'll want to join a coven. But I don't trust the motives of any man who starts a religion, so I'm not inclined to believe everything he says. He was also sexist, which was typical for men of his generation. Here's an interesting bit of info I picked up from Wikipedia:

Several of the provisions in [Gardner's Wiccan Laws] seem rather disagreeable to many Wiccans of today. For example, its sexist language ("as a man loveth a woman by mastering her"), and cursing people and condemning them to an eternity in the Christian hell ("And if any break these Laws, even under torture, THE CURSE OF THE GODDESS SHALL BE UPON THEM, so they may never be reborn on earth and may remain where they belong, in the hell of the Christians.") Another controversial law which irked Valiente was that: "And the greatest virtue of a High Priestess be that she recognize that youth is necessary to the representative of the Goddess. So will she gracefully retire in favor of a younger woman, should the coven so decide in council." Noticeably the Laws have several anachronisms and refer to the threat of being burnt for witchcraft even though this did not happen in England or Wales, where witches were hanged during the witch hunts.

[Miss Pixie]

You have already received some extensive information on this, so I would just like to add two things:

1) I love your username.

2) I love the song in your signature; ''The Voice'' is such a great song.

Blessed Be! =D

[SingingCanyon]

You have already received some extensive information on this, so I would just like to add two things:

1) I love your username.

2) I love the song in your signature; ''The Voice'' is such a great song.

Blessed Be! =D

Thank you very much!

"The Voice" kind of reminds me of the Goddess. It's a truly beautiful song.

Blessed Be.

[scorpianwoman]

I'm reading here and it makes me wonder,... what the... sexual,male,being chained to being told what is or what is not !...sounds like a real good place not to be ...to me !... FREEDOM not control is where i want to be ...To have the freedom to learn to take what you will and let the rest go !...well thats how i see it, i know you can be a born witch as i am my grandfather was a gypsy, my grandmother celt, but i have always classed myself as a self taught spiritual wicca ...I think you are, what you and the gods think you are !... and FREEDOM to choose makes this so ! Blessed be !

[13Lotuses]

Anyone can be Pagan/Wiccan. The only thing that matters is belief (sp?). Period. Anything else is a load of bunk.

[Kendrom]

I have read, several different places, that spells, and rituals are best and most powerful when the words come from you. Spells still work when your repeat what you have read, or heard. But they work the best when they come from you.

If that is correct, then how could it be possible that you must be a descendant of a certain lineage, or you must do this, or you must do that? Does that not take away the "personal touch"?

Maybe I have too many left over ideas from Christianity, but are we not supposed to have a personal relationship with the God/dess?

I am sure that there are spells that you can cast now, that you could not cast when you first started. You cast them now because "YOU" believe. Not because someone else believes. Although a little outside encouragement can help. My point is that it is how each one of us believes. It is personal, not communal.

"An harm no one... do what you will" Not "An harm no one, do what the coven tells you".

I'm new here, but do I have that sortta right?

[p3nathan]

Ridiculous! The worst part is, to believe that magick is only accessible to certain people completely goes against the basics of what magick is. It’s just an attempt to make Wicca elitist. Never let people like this take away your personal power, it is as strong as you believe it to be.
Blessed be