Demons/Daemons, What Are Them Really?

[Esaru Kun]

Personally, since I mainly work with Deific Daemons such as Kali, Resheph, Ketev, Dever and tricksters such as Eleggua and Eris, some Orisha Gbigbona of Yoruba and other Chthonic Adversaries, I believe that my Deities have everything to do with everything. Even the slightest afflictions or the irksome vexations which often mar my consciousness and beset me every day are all coming from Them.

I dont understand this. I dont get why would someone prefer or choose to work with demons, tricksters like Loki, Set and Eris, and adversaries like Satan and Hades if they cause you sufferings and troubles? I haven't really read anything on demons, adversaries and tricksters being part of spirituality (unless you go into the christian mumbo jumbo of all witches being possessed by satanic forces or something). And in case youre wondering, I'm not wanting to try and "work" with them, I just want to understand the reasoning behind this working with negative dark spirits.

[Vesca]

I wouldn't actually call any deity "negative." I tend to chalk that association up with Christianity's demonization of pre-Christian belief systems (also called Christianization).

I'm of the opinion that all deities have the capability to be both benevolent and destructive because that is how the universe operates. For life to even begin, for it to have that dark period of transformation before growth, there must be destruction to make those resources available.

The sun brings warmth, rays, and therefore makes life possible on Earth; but it also brings fire, burning, death, destruction, and (ultimately) the space and freed up resources necessary for renewal.

With that logic, sometimes it is necessary and very beneficial to work those deities who tend to bring unrest and challenge our conceptions and practices in order to bring about positive changes and help us to grow as individuals.

Daemon: a spirit that can be either benevolent, malicious, benign, or a combination of all.

The later definition (and respelling) of demon is different than the original use of the term.

[Seraphin]

I agree with Vesca. Daemons are very capable of harming people but then so are any other Deities of any mainstream pantheon. If you have a working relationship with the Daemons, Adversaries and Tricksters then They can be very protective and supportive.

Yes, They cause me sufferings and troubles. But I actually adhere to the belief that it's my own thoughts and actions that cause harm and malice, not an external force. I believe harmful belief could create harmful and malicious emotion which could have direct effect on my physical body or mundane life.

This harm or malice I created is a perversion of the nature and retard my spiritual progress. Any harm that I do, will come back to me in full force. There's no escape from my Deific Daemons and Adversaries. I guess They believe in the old saying, "what you sow, you shall reap". It's not a question of they like me to suffer. It's a merely a natural or physical need to restore the harmony in nature which I have by my harmful and malicious act disturbed. My Deities are not just anthropomorphic Gods and Goddesses, I view Them too as an abstract cosmic entity, though a reality.

This is more logical to me than the old belief in a mischievous and hostile demons and devils that cause "evil" impulses and therefore cause bad things to people -- an external evil that strikes at random.

My sufferings therefore although ordained and given by my Deities are just signs that I'm merely paying a karmic debt that I had incurred in the past and that despite this, I'm better off even now that I was previously.

Overall, my Deific Daemons and Advesaries are just establishing my steps and I'm the one who chooses my path. And they're going to establish my steps even though that the path I choose leads to fire and destruction. Every choice I make has a consequence and just as importantly, I also have a choice as to how to view that consequence. I always see the result of my behavior as totally just and simply the process of cosmic ordering, if you will.

[Esaru Kun]

I really understand your stance about self-responsibility and such and I'm really impressed however what makes you think that the entities or spirits youre working with arent lying? I've met many pagans who somehow unintentionally attract demonic entities in their summoning circle and according to them, demons have heavy presence, how can you say they are safe? I also witnessed many people who have demons acting through them and they look really really bad! Their physical state, emotional and mental condition... I mean, BAD! They also control thoughts, and even actions of those people. I don't want to offend anyone who's working with demons, but I am not comfortable with them. I am paranormal researcher and investigator for many many years but I cant deny the fact that I myself have difficulty trying to understand why the use or possess people! Well, I have my own theories but those were only based on my experiences and teachings that were taught to me. I would love to hear the reasons from someone who really work with them! Also, how can you tell if the being or creature is a demon or not?

[Becks]

I hope you share some of your experiences-that would be so interesting.

I do not summon in my practice. I have asked for help and been given it. I have no desire to "summon" in that way. I would think that the people you have had to meet or had to "clean up after" are working in a manner that is overreaching their personal abilities. I would also think that they are not working in a clean and careful manner.

I'm curious as to what others have to say. This interests me.

[Seraphin]

As a Daemonolator and someone who works very closely with Daemons, let me just start by saying that there's a significant difference between Daemons and lesser astral entities, spirits or energies who are commonly but mistakenly referred to as 'demons'.

What many people call 'demons' and what you seem to be referring here are generally lesser spirits and entities who wander around the astral plane and otherwords attaching themselves to and feeding off people's auras. These entities come against us daily to wear us down. They accuse and they lie. They are active in every type of negativity. They are NOT responsible for negativity. BUT once a person think, feel or do negative things then that person is stepping closer to these entities. They look for just a small opening so they can work themselves into our lives. They attack us at our points of weakness. Sometimes they too attack at our points of strength. These entities which are also known as devils, imps, astral leeches, lesser beings, parasites attack and accuse people . This is their job. They fight against us DAILY in small areas to make us fall and stay down.

These lesser astral entities can affect people by causing physical illness, mental aberrations and emotional malaise. They know that they can render people useless and weak if they can oppress us in our soul or mind. They know that our spiritual and energetic power will be hindered if they can defeat our body with sickness, disease, and pain These entities latch onto our body and soul, depending what actions we do or thoughts we think that attracts them. These entities can also pose as "ascended masters", "deities", "saints", "spirits of the dead", "extraterrestrials", "elementals or nature spirits" and "guardian angels". These entities are very good in manipulating our feelings so that we believe they are the result of some spiritual beings, higher entities or even Gods acting on us. If you've watched the Insidious movie, then you'll get a glimpse of what I'm talking about.

However, even though these entities can manipulate our thoughts and feelings, if we refuse to believe on it, they can do nothing; they don't have the power to deny our free will. Unfortunately, those who are being manipulated by these entities, most of the time fall on their snare. And those who are under their control aren't easily able to see the truth – the lesser energetic power has to be disturbed or agitated before they can gain a glimpse into their spiritual captivity.

what makes you think that the entities or spirits youre working with arent lying?

If you know what Daemons (especially Deific Daemons) really look like, (not just physically), then you will know the difference between a lying spirit and a Daemon. Daemons are entities who are comparable to Deities who usually inhabit various Underworlds. Their ranks are made up of Spirits and Deities from several sources.

• Fallen Angels, Destroying Angels and Adversaries such as Satan, Abaddon, B'li Ya'al (Belial), Liwyathan (Leviathan), Behemoth, Ketev, Dever, etc. YHWH (Yahweh) and other Canaanite Gods assigned the task to them of annihilating large numbers of people, typically by means of plague or calamity. They're responsible for deterioration, marring, disfiguring, damaging and destruction of people, places and things. They're the representatives of Deities' wrath and judgments. Some of the angels too although they came from the Deities couldn't always be trusted to tell the truth or to reveal the entire of purpose of their errands as there are prevaricating angels and adversaries too that are sent by various Gods and Goddesses. These Beings aren't generally evil, They are just held on a string, serving as tempter and tester of mankind. The entirety of the Goetia falls into this category.
• The Grigori Angels, also known as the Watchers, the sons of God mentioned in Genesis 6:2 who lay with daughters of men, they were said to be bound with everlasting chains in the Abyss. They were once angels of higher order endowed with divine authority and appointed to watch over certain segments of humanity. There are powerful celestial beings who seem to have fallen after they did usurping positions not ordained by YHWH. Azazel is one of them.
• Ancient Deities of Babylonian, Canaanite, Akkadian and other ancient cultures from Near East and Mesopotamia. Well known Demons in this category are most of my Gods and Goddesses such as Baal, Ashtaroth, Dagon, Nergal, Erishkegal and Molekh.
• Chthonic Deities and Beings and Avenging Gods and Goddesses of more well known cultures. Set, Anubis and Apep (Apophis) of Ancient Egypt, the Orisha Gbigbona of Yoruba such as Shango, Oggun and Oya, the underworld inhabitants of the Greek mythos like Hades, Persephone, Hekate, Charon and Cereberus and the Rökkrs of the Norse such as Hel, Loki, Angrboda, Sigyn and Jormungandr are among of those who are included in the Daemonic pantheons.
• Powerful Spirits from other cultures who were never considered Deities or Angels but who have gained power and status over time and therefore have been raised into Deific Daemonic ranks like Lilith of Sumerian mythos and Lamia of Greeks.

As you can see, quite a far cry from the lesser entities you described...

I've met many pagans who somehow unintentionally attract demonic entities in their summoning circle and according to them, demons have heavy presence, how can you say they are safe?

This really depends on the Daemon, the person involved and what you did to them in the first place.

As I've previously pointed out, They are very capable of harming. Many of the Goetia and other Daemons in popular grimoires have a reputation for being harmful specifically because Judeo-Christian mystics many years ago made it their mission to violently conjure, trap, torture and use Them in their own personal agendas. They've been treated very badly and it's made some of Them very suspicious of human interaction. Of course They retaliated.

The popular view of Daemons as rogue angels that can be conjured in magickal circles is a gross misunderstanding. Most mystics at that time (and I'm aware even now) failed to understand that Daemons can't be 'conjured' or treated as an object, since They are also Divine Entities and subject to no one. Some of them are angels who have various divinely assigned tasks. Some of Them are the prosecutors who levels charges in front of the courts of the Otherworlds. Some of Them are "Gods and Goddesses" of antiquity so it's very disrespectful and rude to attempt to invoke Them for selfish or manipulative purposes.

On the other hand, if you have a working relationship with Them then They ARE VERY SAFE. I know some people here who are already working with some Adversaries and Underworld Deities like Loki, Lilith, Hekate, Lucifer and Persephone and I'm a thousand percent sure, they've never had a negative experience with Them, because they approach Them with an appropriate attitude and core belief system. If you just KNOW how to maintain honor and humility then you wont have any trouble with Them.

I also witnessed many people who have demons acting through them and they look really really bad! Their physical state, emotional and mental condition... I mean, BAD! They also control thoughts, and even actions of those people.

I assume you're really talking about "demonic" possession here? True possession is actually rare and it's not normally because of Daemons or angels or Deities but because of the lesser spirits like otherwordly parasites and sentient poltergeists.

Again, the Daemons, are ministers of the Gods or the Gods Themselves, not malignant spirits; if you've invoked Them into yourself and given them permission to control your mind and body then They would do, and nothing because They are themselves malignant. Yes it may be hard to suppose that Satan and other Daemons is called divine. Still even the Bible (Job, 2 Kings, 1 Samuel 16:15-16 and 2 Thessalonians 2:11) lend countenance to this point.

Personally, I don't believe in the existence of a supernatural realm of good, obedient angels who serve the Gods in the particular mountain, and evil, rebellious ones (demons) who serve the Gods in the realm of the dead. I don't consider Daemons an independent force for evil. That idea is anathema to my perspective because of the whiff of dualism inherent in it.

My theory is that the reason we see so much possession in Catholic faiths is because the lesser spirits who claim to be Lucifer or Beezelbub (but who aren't) manipulate they're feelings so that they believe they are the result of those Beings acting on them. Most people who report such experiences are sincere in belief that something satanic or demonic caused these feelings and sensations, but it doesn't necessarily make it true. This is all delusional; it has nothing to do with Daemons. In the same way, the power of suggestion can be very strong, and we can easily convince ourselves –- and others -– that something demonically or evilly strange or mysterious is going on. The main area of lesser astral nasties' influence is in our psyche, our mind. So we should make an extra effort to learn about them so that our perceptions aren't sidetracked by these distractions.

I don't want to offend anyone who's working with demons, but I am not comfortable with them. I am paranormal researcher and investigator for many many years but I cant deny the fact that I myself have difficulty trying to understand why the use or possess people! Well, I have my own theories but those were only based on my experiences and teachings that were taught to me.

It's not offensive to me if you aren't comfortable working with Demons. What IS offensive to me is people who insist that Daemons are the same as astral nasties, parasites or psychic leeches.

Also, how can you tell if the being or creature is a demon or not?

If they suit in the above categories I mentioned then They are most likely true Daemons. How do you know that an entity or a spirit is Diana or Hermes or Isis or Thor? When you meet Them, you can tell the difference.

They appear to many people in different forms and guises. Though in contrast to other angels, they're often (not always though) envisioned as composite beings, made up of frightening aspects of animals and humans. Lilith is often seen as a great carrion bird and is joined by the wild desert animals. Liwyathan is always seen as a great dragon. Beelzebub appears as a gigantic fly. Aamon appears to me as a being with owl's head, wolf's fore part of the body and serpent's tail. Murmur appears to me as a soldier riding a Griffin and wearing a crown. Ereshkigal appears to me as a dark winged queen. Dagon usually appears to me as a merman. Kali is a black, three-eyed, four-armed woman with tusks thrusting out from Her face. They will appear to a person based on that person's common cultural thought on their appearance.