egregore

[vonigan]

has anyone ever heard of the egregore called GOTOS?
I've read about it in one of my books and I tried to google it but was no where to be found.
I kept getting some computer part that has the same name.
the only info I have on said egregore is that it was created to be a "battery" for some group and that's about it.

if anyone knows anything I would be happy if you enlighten me.

[Sercee]

http://www.philhine.org.uk/writings/ess_egregore.html

http://www.sacred-magick.com/Main.html? ... irits.html

http://user.cyberlink.ch/~koenig/fs2.htm

I haven't read far into any of these, but they seem to apply to what you want to know. If you need more, try googling both egregore and gotos at the same time.

[Eretik]

This sounds similar to a Fetch or Shibboleth and I'm sure there are many other names in different cultures. I didn't recognise the term Egregore but I am aware of the use of 'servitors' in Chaos Magic and familiars and the like. I will be looking at these links too, sounds interesting.

[vonigan]

Gradus Ordo Templi Orientis Saturni is where it gets it's name. (the first letter of each word)
the Fraternitas Saturni was the group that brought it to "life" I guess you could say.
from what I understand it was much like an embodiment of saturn energies.
from another site that I finally found, they were describing it's apperance.
just look at my avatar.
I guess that's what he looks like. I think I might change it now.
it freaked me out a little when they desribed it and the two matched.

thank you Sercee for being so helpful.
those sites were very informative

[Eretik]

Your avatar looks Crowleyesque to me and The O.T.O is a group Crowley belonged to. Don't worry about that. He really does get a bad press! The man's scholarship, particularly in Ceremonial [ritual] magic is astounding. This 'thought form' is not so different to the type used by chaos mages.[Chaos magic - I also find to be misogynistic and unbalanced] This is not, however, to say that it and other workings of this nature are to be trifled with. I dislike the term 'servitor', personally, as I find that spiritual forces are not that servile and it's disrespectful if not dangerous to think of them as such.

[vonigan]

now that you mention it, it does look like Aleister. I have read a little about him. I own the book of the law, magick book 4, umm.....and the book of lies.
I understand now that he wasn't a bad man like some people make him out to be. I think his metaphors were completely misunderstood. people were taking at face value.

I agree with the servitor thing. it's dangerous and unwise to call something a servant, even if you created it as the Fraternitas Saturni did. when you create an egregore you give it "life" then you give it a certain length of "life".
from my understanding they didn't give this being a lifespan, which could lead to trouble. when they created it, they did it as a group so there's no telling what any one of them put into this being.

[thatguy]

Thanks for the links Sercee, I enjoyed the readings. I have a lot to say about the generative ability of the spirit, but I'm not sure how to put it.

I'm actually a little afraid of the idea of creating sentient life. Someone ages back was posting on the theory that some Gods and Goddesses were actually abandoned servitors. Personally, I think I my have encountered one or two such entities, but I'm unsure, I doubt I'll have to gall to ask "were you created by someone?" the next time I have this suspicion (and opportunity), but I've said far dumber things by accident.

Although I don't really know how it all works, I know that our 'creations' can take on a life of their own and continue growing/developing without our attention (or at least a noticeable degree of it). Although I can't claim to know for sure, I suspect that a sufficiently advanced and fully autonomous and self-aware creation could also create a creation, and so on.

This is a strange question, but if someone created a magical realm from their spirit, but didn't populate that realm with any fully self-aware beings (maybe just some plant life), does anyone think that given enough time, that realm could eventually spawn sentient life anyways? That is, is it strictly necessary to intend the creation of an autonomous and sentient entity directly in order to create one, or can sentience arise spontaneously?

T. Guy.

[[Hearthwitch]]

I'm not familiar with the specific egregor/servitor/thought form/etc. you asked about but I've had experience with them in the past. I currently have created a few of my own and they have always been very minor constructs with limited intelligence and utility. This was done for a reason.

Several times I've interacted with egregors gone bad. One was a shoddily made construct that had been abandoned by the group that made it. It went on to make a nuisance of itself until I dealt with it. By the time I stepped in, it was a nasty bloated tick of a thing. Another experience was of a construct that a fellow practitioner made to monitor his house wards. Basically, it wasn't quite following its programming and had to be carefully edited.

Sometimes I think they are more bother than they're worth. Certainly they should be created with caution and I generally suggest a 'kill switch' that activates for specific reasons or after a specific time frame. This is because you never really know what will become of them once outside of your influence/command. They might turn into a positive influence but more often it's astral static or something far less savory.

If you do come into contact with this particular egregor... be very careful. What it was may no longer be what it is.

Hearthwitch.

[Eretik]

Well, from my path and experiences - when one of these forms is created they must 'feed' like any other living thing- what and how? depends on their purpose. Energy beings feed on energy, either willingly given or unwillingly, it dosen't matter, if one is created for harm it will feed on negativity- if there's none- it will use it's abilities to make some. These things usually spiral way beyond the creator's control, quickly too. I agree about the morality of creating one, Extreme care and some degree of skill is needed. I don't find them useful and I have had 'fun' sorting them out too. I know someone who got involved with Chaos magic and it has swallowed his ego till he is no longer a decent or moral person - he uses these things and his home is full of conflict and misery, as are he and his current associates [and I find a lot of Phil Hines work to be ripped off from the O.T.O. and other Crowley sources]. I think if you play with fire you risk getting burnt and I, personally , don't like giving up my energy unless it is strictly necessary. Yes, Thatguy I think that sentience evolves independantly once creation is caused and putting 'the genie back in the bottle' is always much harder than letting it out.