Any Christian Wiccans in here?

[justmeleo]

Many conservative Christians consider the Bible to be the word of God. This includes, but not limited too, most Southern Baptists and Pentecostal.

Hmm. I live in the Bible Belt. That's not what the Southern Baptists asked me when they tried to get me to join their church via Baptism. Only asked me if I believed in Christ. Oh, yes we had a debate over the bible too. In those SB study groups they debate the bible too. In the end all they cared about was my belief in Christ. Can't speak of Pentecostals most other christians stay away from them and the JW. Trust me there are a lot of charismatics out there that most other Christians think are walking the line of wicca, including Pentecostals.

My anger is someone use trying to define me by putting me in a box of THEIR definition. It is equally as stupid as check your ethinicity questions, but you can only pick one. What about out the interracial children? Or telling an interracial child that they are black just because they have one black parent. Sorry I define myself not someone else. You can debate the bible till the end of the world but if you try to tell me who I am & what I believe. You better be ready for some anger. To me it is no different than religious intollerance. Which is kinda irronic considering the witch trials and Christian intolerance towards the Wicca there. If you want to know my beliefs then ask.

Just don't tell me who you think I am because you don't know me & we will be just fine.

[Eretik]

I did ask, in my last post. I for one, am very interested in your beliefs. It may go some way towards mutual understanding if you do. I saw that you work with Angels and chakras, this sounds like a form of mysticism to me, I mentioned that. I and others , I am sure,will be happy to take an interest and listen. We are of many paths. I am also sure that we could all begin to pick holes in each others ideas and beliefs, if we tried hard enough.

[Sercee]

I think this discussion should be locked.

[LaFiamma]

Now, I will phrase this question carefully. If Saria, myself, or anyone else believes in Christ but does not necessarily think that the Bible as it is written today is correct in its condemnation of Witchcraft, can they then be Christian and Wiccan? (Please don't quote the Bible again.)

As I understand it, the answer would be no unless you are willing to accept an important feature of Wicca. That being that Wicca acknowledges a goddess and a god. All other gods are reflections/aspects of the two. In order to successfully integrate the two, you would have to acknowledge a goddess. Which, if you look back into ancient Judaism there was a goddess named Ashara who was the consort of Yahweh. That would probably be the easiest way to bring a goddess into the picture.

So, if you were to bring in Ashara, or another goddess of your choice and Yahweh/Jesus as the god, I don’t really see an impediment. If it were myself, I would go with Ashara and the friendlier aspect of God, Jesus.

It would seem to me then, that what you are describing is more Jewish Wicca than Christian Wicca. Ashara wasn't a Christan idea.

My take:

Can you be a Christian Witch? Sure. Witchcraft isn't a religion. It's a craft that can be practiced within or wthout a religious context.

Christian Wiccan? Not so much. The two religions contradict on some base points which are crucial to each one. To mix the two, you must compromise on some of these points, and in doing so end up with somehing that is neither Christianity nor Wicca.

Christianity has the one God (as most Christians are trinitarian, I include the god the Father, Jesus and the Holy Ghost when I say "God"), and states that the only way to God/Heaven etc is through accepting Jesus Christ as savior. If you leave that basic belief, you're not Christian, and condemned to Hell.

Wicca- God/Goddess and aspects thereof. No savior. No Hell. The Goddess gives birth to the God, does the nasty with him at Beltane, blah blah blah, he dies and is resurrected when she gives birth to him again. Eh...Mary, Jesus, mother, baby....but Mary+Jesus....no. The resurrection isn't the same thing.

[Baratoz]

Hmm. I live in the Bible Belt. That's not what the Southern Baptists asked me when they tried to get me to join their church via Baptism. Only asked me if I believed in Christ. Oh, yes we had a debate over the bible too. In those SB study groups they debate the bible too. In the end all they cared about was my belief in Christ.

Well, according to the beliefs laid out by the Southern Baptist convention, the Bible is the word of God without error.


The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is God's revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter.


The debate on that topic is over and closed.

My anger is someone use trying to define me by putting me in a box of THEIR definition.

You need to be reminded that you are the one who jumped into this thread and start quoting Bible verses and got angry when others responded back using other verses. So, basically the way I see it you are demanding that everyone else bend to your interpretation of the Bible. No one has told you what you should believe, only what they believe. You have no right to be angry towards anyone here.

[Baratoz]

It would seem to me then, that what you are describing is more Jewish Wicca than Christian Wicca. Ashara wasn't a Christan idea.

Neither was Yahweh. If you have Yahweh in Christianity, then what is wrong with Ashara? Granted, she is primarily a Jewish goddess, but Christianity has its roots in Judaism.

[justmeleo]

As I understand it, the answer would be no unless you are willing to accept an important feature of Wicca. That being that Wicca acknowledges a goddess and a god. All other gods are reflections/aspects of the two. In order to successfully integrate the two, you would have to acknowledge a goddess.

I accept that you do not consider me to be Wicca. By your definition of Wicca I am not. I like what LaFiamma said.

Can you be a Christian Witch? Sure. Witchcraft isn't a religion. It's a craft that can be practiced within or wthout a religious context.

You need to be reminded that you are the one who jumped into this thread and start quoting Bible verses and got angry when others responded back using other verses. So, basically the way I see it you are demanding that everyone else bend to your interpretation of the Bible.

The only quote I gave from the bible was if you believed in something so much then you could make it happen. Which is the basis of my belief. I am not demanding that everyone else bend to my interpretation of the Bible. You may believe in it word for word. Trust me I know that there are many out there who disagree with me. Which is why I don't go to any of the Christian forums because I don't want to be bombarded by Bible quotes that I don't believe in. I was wanting to go to a forum that was respectful of my beliefs.

I guess Steven, Saria, and I were getting angered because of the complementary words such as "YOU FAIL" and other slams against our beliefs. ...Ahh, the people who were quoting the bible to us BELIEVE the the bible is the WORD of a SINGLE GOD. I accept their opinion/definition of me that I am not a Christian, like I do others who believe the Bible in its' entirety on other forums. This truely will be my last post because I'm not going to open this thread up again.

[vonigan]

Believe it or not some of us have been taught that the Bible was inspired by God but written by men, and I do mean MEN as in not WOMEN!

wow
how misogynistic!

that's one reason I don't touch the bible unless absolutely needed. it's like a righteous, woman hating penis in the form of a book.

[Baratoz]

I accept that you do not consider me to be Wicca. By your definition of Wicca I am not. I like what LaFiamma said.

You are correct on that one. I consider you to be a cowan. I will rephrase what I said earlier. You cannot incorporate Wicca into Christianity, but you can incorporate liberal Christianity into Wicca. LaFiamma is also correct about witchcraft. It is independent of Wicca and can be incorporated into your liberal view of Christianity.

ou may believe in it word for word.

I definitely do not. You and I are probably on the same wavelength in our interpretations of the Bible. I was just pointing out that many Christians, not just JW, do not share your view.

This truely will be my last post because I'm not going to open this thread up again.

Suit yourself. I don’t really care to argue with you anymore. It is pointless.

[Saria]

If so, where do you stand on the Horned God vs Satan?

Here is a link to an old thread where some of us discussed that. I think it will answer your question.

http://www.everythingunderthemoon.net/f ... ght=#34923

Thank you.. That actually DOES answer my question since not many people here actually did.

[Steven]

My final thought probably on this thread:

For those I have agrued with on this thread, I do see you points and can concede to them by widening my own point of view. I do appreciate you input. I will learn far more when someone disagrees with me than not I think.

I will try not to be thin-boned about Christian references. I thank you all for your input. Check my next post in Q and A about symbolism.

Oh, and what does "locking a thread" do? I don't know what that means exactly.

Thanks.

[hedge*]

Locking a thread is when me or one of the other mods comes along and makes it so no more posts can be added to a particular topic.
I only ever lock threads when people start going round and round in circles, I never lock threads where there is still discussion to be had and learning to be shared.
Hera however, is not as patient as me.

[Exilus]

I refuse to discuss the direction this went any longer so i will simply say this.


Saria I am sorry we did not answer your question in this post. Baratoz was correct in the fact that we will help you reguardless of what your beleifs are, as I said several times in my posts it is not your beleifs i was discussing but the name it was given.
As someone else has said there are so many forms of christian beleif that uses magic, satamaria(sp), Voodoo, hell the catholic reliogion its self if you can ever get your hands on a copy of the book of ritual,(before i get asked, this was the book the catholics kept all their oldest rituals in, it included the rights of exorcism and much more.) That using the title of christian wicca is a oxymoron as wolf said.

As showed above I do use the bible to prove my points when it applies. mostly when someone asks a question that has to do with it.

My main point was with so many different forms of religion that joins use of magic with Christian it is better to research them and then se if any of them if any match your beleifs, you might be surprised how many of them are not what you have been taught them to be.


Thats the most I will add to what Baratoz has said.

Baratoz thank you for clarifying what I was saying, like most of us who have strong beleifs I intend to go one way in the discussion and one thing gets said and it takes me 40 miles south when i need to go so wide north.



To go with the main discussion of the topic, Saria there are stories through out history that it is documented that the look and ideals of what is the devil is taken from pagen gods, the horned god, pan, and many more. The best known and most documented is during the crusades. The crusaders went north and had run into a people ther who followed a sun god, Lucifer and got their asses kicked for over 20 years. In the christian world at the time satan had only had the name satan, and when portrayed in statue he was like all other angels save he was made with black stone to show him as outcast. Infact the pope in 1490 had sought to have a new statues erected to the angels and included with in that was satan, and when asked what he wished to do he was quoted in saying.

Satan is gods enemy and th emost evil of decievers, but he was once gods most loved angel and hjis most loyal and therefore he has the right to be displayed as he always has been, a fallen angel.

but when the crusaders returned and told their tale to the highest of thier order, from that time on satan was then known as lucifer, because only the truest enemy of god could have been so hard to defeat. The statues sudenly sprouted a tail like the god they had been facing as his statues also worked as sun dials, as well as cloven feet which the god had because he was also their nature god, and lasty horns of a goat. There are many more stories this is simply the one I know to be documented.

So as a pagen of coarse i do not beleive in teh christian form of the devil and I laugh and get somewhat offended when the devil is given the name of Hades...chuckles.. but the devil weather he be a true being or not, I think in a wayhe is the gods described, because the beleif in him changed a bit more with each army the crusaders faced and more was added to him.

[goth-kid555]

justmeleo said :Practically every religion adds & takes away from their book. Catholics do it Muslims do it.

hi there ...i haven't read all the topic but i'v reached till this part...well i'm a muslim and no one ever changed the holy quran (muslim's bible) ,no one added or took away anything from it ,who gave you or where did you get these wrong information from?!

[Sercee]

Well, I don't know where justmeleo got the information about changing the book, but realistically if it was written by man it was interpreted by man and therefore could be wrong.

Also, as we have been seeing recently with the US/Al Qeada crap, sometimes people take a book like the Quran or the Bible and twist it. It may still say the same thing but it isn't what is being preached.