Who doesnt believe in Threefold?

[Sercee]

Thatguy, those are good arguments.

I think the best thing to do is to (and this is going to sound sooo hippie) look into yourself for what is right, and always do your best to treat everyone around you with the same respect and good will that you would like shown to you. While the 'threefold law' may not be literal, it's still good to remember that while not everyone has a conscience everyone has a choice, and if you choose to take the 'right' path you stand a better chance of it coming back to you than if you didn't.

I definately believe in a 'ripple effect' - if I make a point to smile at a stranger or thank someone sincerely during the day then their mood will go up and perhaps they'll do the same to someone else, and so on. Eventually, someone does it to me. While I have no way of measuring if this is in any way related to my initial smile, I know that I did make someone brighten up for just a second. And that's more important to me than hoping that I'll reap some kind of reward for being a good guy.

But using the threefold law to try to warn someone against harm (similar to using the bogeyman to scare children into obedience) can be useful, if only because it might make someone think first.

[Spionen]

Positive and negative energy as a magical or karmic force (Threefold)? No.

Positive and negative energy as a social force? Absolutely.

[Ariawyn]

"sigh"
I hope I didn't anger you ThatGuy. I was just throwing out some ideas. Maybe I should have thought about them more?

It was awesome how you broke everything down that i said. It's interesting to hear the responces to what I said! Makes me think! Made me feel childish, however. That I didn't go into such deep thought.

I don't understand the part about children being born into poor families. I thought about it soon after I wrote my post. No, I do not think they should suffer for past lives. Even if it was caused by past lives. The person has no knowledge of the bad karma they have made, so what is the purpose in punishing?
Hehe, you make me sound heartless for saying those things. I'm definetly watching what I say around you!

Thanks for your comments ThatGuy.

~Skye

[Sercee]

Hehe, you make me sound heartless for saying those things. I'm definetly watching what I say around you!

I wouldn't call you heartless. It's human nature to make assumptions based on what you see. Thatguy simply came along and offered another side to that - don't feel bad, use it as a tool to help you look at a situation from more perspectives.

Unfortunately, not everyone can be born in the same place. That would cause a host of other problems that I don't want to think about. The world is large and diverse and the people in each area are important to the growth and care of that region. If, for example, as a human race we spent less money on Nike shoes and more on making life better for those who can't have shoes period then the quality of life in general would balance out and children wouldnt have to suffer just because of where they were born. But, because we (westernized society) have gotten so greedy and selfish and wasteful, we are killing them and causing immeasurable problems for ourselves in the future.

I just thought of something... supposedly seafood will be unavailable by 2048. Taken from the perspective of several generations of 'civilization', this seems to be an example of karma for our wastefulness and lack of diligence. We're killing the planet because we want luxuries and power. How is that not inherited karma?

Sorry for rambling.

[thatguy]

"sigh"
I hope I didn't anger you ThatGuy. I was just throwing out some ideas. Maybe I should have thought about them more?

I'm only sharing my point of view with you. I think there are some strange and undesirable consequences of a believe in something similar to the three-fold law. No-one always sees all sides of an issue, so don't worry about throwing out your ideas, that's what the forum is for

I don't understand the part about children being born into poor families. I thought about it soon after I wrote my post. No, I do not think they should suffer for past lives. Even if it was caused by past lives. The person has no knowledge of the bad karma they have made, so what is the purpose in punishing?
Hehe, you make me sound heartless for saying those things. I'm definetly watching what I say around you!

You sound like a very nice person, probably nicer than me. I just really don't like the notion that people in suffering might somehow deserve it, or even worse, that if you yourself are suffering, that you somehow deserve it. I think this fosters a very unhealthy attitude. I think these kinds of notions are strongly attached to beliefs which are similar to the three-fold law (as some state it).

As for watching what you say, please don't. I really would rather hear whatever it is that you really think.

cheers,

T. Guy.

[Sobek]

i agree never dilute what you think on the fear that someone will disagree, theres not much point having an oppinion otherwise

[Tinkeke]

This is an interesting thread

I dont think i believe in a rigid 3x return - but i like to believe that our intentions and actions shape the world around us. You reap what you sow etc...

I dont believe in past lives though (ie, same spirit, different body). I think a part of our ancestors lives on in us (spiritually as well as genetically) and carries through. So to live a strong life is to invest strength in those that come after.

Lol, who knows!

Tinkeke

[Sercee]

I dont believe in past lives though (ie, same spirit, different body). I think a part of our ancestors lives on in us (spiritually as well as genetically) and carries through. So to live a strong life is to invest strength in those that come after.

That's an interesting way to look at it, and that also makes sense.
The only reason why I don't think I agree with that is because of people who have had past lives AND speak with their ancestors. My grandma-in-law is one of these people. If the spirit of the ancestor was cycled into making your spirit then it wouldn't, I think, be able to communicate with you otherwise. Grandma G (witchiest woman I've ever known!) talks to animals and her ancestors (yes they both talk back) and she has strength and memories from her past lives. This life she has been such a good, strong woman that I know she'll have a great life next time around.

[Aerea]

Im not to keen with the threefold law but I do believe in karma. I didnt think I felt it that strongly but the other day it dawned on me when I got a job interview at shaws, even though I may have a job as a CNA. I didnt turn down the interview because I thought if I did some twisted force would mess up my CNA job offer. I did end up canceling the interview because I thought I nailed my interview with the night people. I gave the hiring guy the muber to the vocational school I went to (straight from the phone book) and the number wasnt in service. I could just kick myself in the head for this. Go figure huh? smiley17_snarl

[WolfWitch]

Personally, I do believe in the three fold clause because I have seen it far too many times to dismiss it. I don't however, see it as a morality rule. I see it as just a reminder that what you sow, you'll reap back. It says good for good and ill for ill, but it never states that you HAVE to only do good. (note the ten commandments all start with "Thous Shalt NOT... This is not an option.) The choice has always and will always lie in our own hands. We make our own fate as we go. I think it only serves to reminder that what ever you decide to do, you will see again.

WW.

[Wolf*]

see my sig for the answer. good and bad are words that are so relative, it is simply a matter of opinion, therefore, how is the universal mind or whatever going to judge it? By whos standards are we judged?

[cnolan7263]

I've been speaking with a woman who's been involved in the Craft for about fifteen years. She doesn't believe in the Threefold Rule - only that there are karmic responses to all you do, although it may not be three fold. I'm still trying to decide...I suppose, in my opinion, as long as you're not hurting others, or being malicious, you shouldn't have to worry about the Threefold Rule, you know?

[Storm]

I never felt comfortable with the threefold rule, but struggled to find another way to express it within my mind. I then attended a talk by Phyllis Curott and she just blew my mind. She explained her belief that we do not perform harmful magic or acts not because we are afraid of the repercussions, but because we work with the sacred and we feel awe and respect for those energies that we work with and we would not wish to use them for 'immoral' purposes. This made perfect sense to me.

[thatguy]

I never felt comfortable with the threefold rule, but struggled to find another way to express it within my mind. I then attended a talk by Phyllis Curott and she just blew my mind. She explained her belief that we do not perform harmful magic or acts not because we are afraid of the repercussions, but because we work with the sacred and we feel awe and respect for those energies that we work with and we would not wish to use them for 'immoral' purposes. This made perfect sense to me.

To you it might make perfect sense, she's basically saying, some people don't use these energies for 'immoral' purposes because they don't want to. Did she comment on those who would wish to use sacred and respected energies for 'immoral' purposes because it gives them great pleasure?

I'm not trying to bring you down, I think it's great that being 'moral' comes naturally to you, or as you put it: "makes perfect sense." I just don't understand some people's absolute belief that everyone is basically 'good' by some (usually arbitrary) moral compass, or the more extreme belief that there exists an absolute moral compass. I'm not totally sure that most of these people have even asked themselves the question: "am I myself fundamentally good, or am I simply conditioned to respond in certain ways with my feelings?"

Unfortunately, it's not practical to raise this kind of issue in a seminar if one wishes to avoid political assassination by mob.

cheers,

T. Guy.

[hedge*]

Karma and the three fold law are 2 completely different things and it irks me that people clump the 2 together.
Karma (Sanskrit: कर्म), or Kamma (Pali) is a sanskrit word and a concept of relgions born in India (eastern religions), meaning 'action, effect, destiny.' In Hinduism and, later, Buddhism and Sikhism, it is the sum of a person's actions, regarded as determining that person's future states of existence. The effects of those deeds actively create all that is to happen and determine every present and future experience, thus completely excluding random chance.
Karma is usually translated as the law of cause and effect. That we suffer at present because of past harmful or spiteful actions. Karma underlines the importance of all individuals being responsible for their past and present actions. When taking actions, it is best to look at what effect this will have on others, and why is it that we are taking these actions.
The term denotes a highly complex system of actions and reactions weaving a ceaseless chain of cause and effect.

The threefold basically donates that what you send out into the world will come back to you 3 times - whether that be good or bad or whatever.
I don't believe in karma as I have stated numerous times around the forum. I refuse to accept that people get punished or rewarded for things they do, that is just totally absurd to me. There is no omnipotent overlord dishing out justice as they see fit - good things happen to bad people, bad things happen to good people - it's called life.

I do, however, believe in every action has a reaction. Every day the choices and descisions we make effect not only us but people around us whether we know them or not.
It's nothing magical or spiritual it's just cause and effect