some being and such believe to have other know thier name is to have power over them. these days names rarely have such power but a mere means of distinction between different people.
What are you thoughts on a name giving power over another?
Names of Power
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Vigdisdotter
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Re: Names of Power
I disagree, look at identity theft issues for one.some being and such believe to have other know thier name is to have power over them. these days names rarely have such power but a mere means of distinction between different people.
To have a name is to have a starting point for finding out/understanding a person, who they are, what they do and what their history is. The same can be said for non-human entities as well.
And as the old saying goes, knowledge is power.
I honestly thought this (knowing the 'true name' of a thing) was only a Kabbalah thing. I was under the impression that a Wiccan's magical name was simply a name to use in one's new life after initiation. As for demons, djinn, etc, I think that this requirement for knowing a spirit's 'actual name' in order to believe you can effect it is kind of silly, but that's just my opinion.
T. Guy.
T. Guy.
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Jeanne84
I don't know about power, but knowing someones name does connect you to another on a more, if only slightly, personal level. I see it a a good and a bad thing. For instance, when you're a child and you do something your parent sees as wrong. They are probably going to say your full name to bring your attention to them and what you just did. Though it can be a good thing because now in society if you ask a peson who they are, the first thing they answer with is their name. By them telling you their name it's kind of an invitation into their lives.
Actualy, Thatguy, 'real names' and the auspices that go with them have been a part of many cultures and belief systems for a very long period of history, don't know much about Wicca, myself, it never interested me. Magickal names etc. - so much older than that. We are all entitled to our opinions, think mine silly if you will, I made a general comment on this topic, some of us find the study of Djinnie and Demonology fascinating, I love all the hoo-haa and legends and all that goes with it. It dosen't come only from Qabbala either, nor is it purely Hebraic in origin - Hey Sobek! - I know your real name too - can I have your firstborn? [ Rumpelstiltskin story reference - in case any body thinks I 'm really a Djinn worshipping baby killer!]
Ack! Baby killer! *searches for a pitch fork*
Ahem... right. Well, I think there are two ways to look at this, as there are with most things on this forum: Magically and Mundane.
Magically, the name does give you a 'link' to the person for spell casting. The more information you have (full name, location, dna etc) the stronger the link. Mundanely, I agree completely with Vigdisdotter.
Ahem... right. Well, I think there are two ways to look at this, as there are with most things on this forum: Magically and Mundane.
Magically, the name does give you a 'link' to the person for spell casting. The more information you have (full name, location, dna etc) the stronger the link. Mundanely, I agree completely with Vigdisdotter.
Thank-you for the clearing that up Eretik. Could you name some of the beliefs systems which focus on this, I'd be interested in expanding my knowledge?Actualy, Thatguy, 'real names' and the auspices that go with them have been a part of many cultures and belief systems for a very long period of history, don't know much about Wicca, myself, it never interested me. Magickal names etc. - so much older than that. We are all entitled to our opinions, think mine silly if you will, I made a general comment on this topic, some of us find the study of Djinnie and Demonology fascinating, I love all the hoo-haa and legends and all that goes with it. It dosen't come only from Qabbala either, nor is it purely Hebraic in origin - Hey Sobek! - I know your real name too - can I have your firstborn? [ Rumpelstiltskin story reference - in case any body thinks I 'm really a Djinn worshipping baby killer!]
I'm so very sorry if I offended you, I certainly didn't intend to imply that you were silly. I was only answering Sobek's question with my own opinion. If you'd be willing to share your knowledge with us, I'd actually be interested in learning about the origins of true names outside of Kaballah and the systems used to acquire these names.
What is the basis for the belief that the 'true name' of a demon, or some such thing, has power? Again, sorry if I offend you
.cheers,
T. Guy.
Thatguy - in a word, no. I am not a teacher. I have a broad based knowledge on these matters accumulated from varied sources. If I have appropriate links, which I may, I might post them. You could begin with folklore, especially Eastern European and middle Eastern - it's a good start. There are also several links, previously posted on related topics which may be helpful.
I have researched this much since we talked about it sobek, and I have found these things for you. Now bare with me some of these texts are old and a few may not even apply to our beleif but at the end I will make my point for you.
From the book of High Magick
The Book of The Law 1629
22. Now, therefore, I am known to ye by my name Nuit, and to him by a
secret name which I will give him when at last he knoweth me. Since I am Infinite Space and the Infinite Stars thereof, do ye also thus. Bind nothing! Let there be no difference made among you between any one thing & any other thing; for thereby cometh hurt. To speaketh the name of that most holy, shall detroy its holiness, This shall also hold true to that which is evil. The name which is held most secret, shall hold strength over the holder of that name.
From the book Abraham the jew date unsure. this is said tobe datedat the time of the bible, but bible scholars because of the magickal use and nature of this book, have disputed the claim that this is the words of the abraham of the bible.
“In the Name of the Blessed and Holy Trinity, I do desire ye, strong and
mighty Angels (here name the Spirit or Spirits you would have appear), that if it be the Divine Will of Him Who is called Tetragrammaton, etc., the Holy God, the Father, that ye take upon ye some shape as best becometh your celestial nature, and appear to us visibly here in this place, and answer our demands, in as far as we shall not transgress the bounds of the Divine mercy and goodness, by requesting unlawful knowledge; but that thou wilt graciously shew us what things are most profitable for us to know and do, to the glory and honour of His Divine Majesty Who liveth and reigneth world without end. Amen.
From the book of Heptameron: fourth book of Agrippa
The name of the earth, according to that part of time wherein you work. Ninthly,and for the compleating of the middle Circle, Write the name of the Sun and of the Moon, according to the said rule of time; for as the time is changed, so the names are to be altered. And in the outermost Circle, let there be drawn in the four Angles, the names of the presidential Angels of the Air, that day wherein you would do this work; to wit, the name of the King and his three Ministers.
The key of Solomon year 500.
The names of God are vibrations calculated to establish:
(a) General control of the brain. (Establishment of functions relative to the subtle
world.)
(b) Control over the brain in detail. (Rank or type of the Spirit.)
(c) Control of one special portion. (Name of the Spirit.)
And the bible itself.
Knowing the name of god, is to know the end of times. To bring forth the destruction of man.
Most classical and trusted tombs of magic all agree, that the name of a spirit or of gods, and to speak these things aloud is to have power over them. Same applys to your magical and most private name that is given to you in your practice. That name is known to you and the gods alone and that name gives the gods power over you.
Some books I recommmend to further your search are the books of solomon,
Theurgia Goetia
Book II
of the
Lemegeton
The Ars Nova
Book V
of the
Lemegeton
Ars Almadel
Part IV
of the
Lemegeton
As well as a few more feel free to hit me up on msn, and I will see about getting you copies of these in Microsoft word form, I am also working on adding a few of the dead sea scroll translations to my ditigital bos, and though I have not looked yet, I know they contain more references to the power of names.
From the book of High Magick
The Book of The Law 1629
22. Now, therefore, I am known to ye by my name Nuit, and to him by a
secret name which I will give him when at last he knoweth me. Since I am Infinite Space and the Infinite Stars thereof, do ye also thus. Bind nothing! Let there be no difference made among you between any one thing & any other thing; for thereby cometh hurt. To speaketh the name of that most holy, shall detroy its holiness, This shall also hold true to that which is evil. The name which is held most secret, shall hold strength over the holder of that name.
From the book Abraham the jew date unsure. this is said tobe datedat the time of the bible, but bible scholars because of the magickal use and nature of this book, have disputed the claim that this is the words of the abraham of the bible.
“In the Name of the Blessed and Holy Trinity, I do desire ye, strong and
mighty Angels (here name the Spirit or Spirits you would have appear), that if it be the Divine Will of Him Who is called Tetragrammaton, etc., the Holy God, the Father, that ye take upon ye some shape as best becometh your celestial nature, and appear to us visibly here in this place, and answer our demands, in as far as we shall not transgress the bounds of the Divine mercy and goodness, by requesting unlawful knowledge; but that thou wilt graciously shew us what things are most profitable for us to know and do, to the glory and honour of His Divine Majesty Who liveth and reigneth world without end. Amen.
From the book of Heptameron: fourth book of Agrippa
The name of the earth, according to that part of time wherein you work. Ninthly,and for the compleating of the middle Circle, Write the name of the Sun and of the Moon, according to the said rule of time; for as the time is changed, so the names are to be altered. And in the outermost Circle, let there be drawn in the four Angles, the names of the presidential Angels of the Air, that day wherein you would do this work; to wit, the name of the King and his three Ministers.
The key of Solomon year 500.
The names of God are vibrations calculated to establish:
(a) General control of the brain. (Establishment of functions relative to the subtle
world.)
(b) Control over the brain in detail. (Rank or type of the Spirit.)
(c) Control of one special portion. (Name of the Spirit.)
And the bible itself.
Knowing the name of god, is to know the end of times. To bring forth the destruction of man.
Most classical and trusted tombs of magic all agree, that the name of a spirit or of gods, and to speak these things aloud is to have power over them. Same applys to your magical and most private name that is given to you in your practice. That name is known to you and the gods alone and that name gives the gods power over you.
Some books I recommmend to further your search are the books of solomon,
Theurgia Goetia
Book II
of the
Lemegeton
The Ars Nova
Book V
of the
Lemegeton
Ars Almadel
Part IV
of the
Lemegeton
As well as a few more feel free to hit me up on msn, and I will see about getting you copies of these in Microsoft word form, I am also working on adding a few of the dead sea scroll translations to my ditigital bos, and though I have not looked yet, I know they contain more references to the power of names.
lemegeton, interesting book that one. another one who actually understood what i was on about. thanks ex
"Knowing the name of god, is to know the end of times. To bring forth the destruction of man."
which also made me remember something similar that i quite love, that is certain things were to be said or done backwards, such as ones true name, it would be there undoing, anyone ever heard this before?
"Knowing the name of god, is to know the end of times. To bring forth the destruction of man."
which also made me remember something similar that i quite love, that is certain things were to be said or done backwards, such as ones true name, it would be there undoing, anyone ever heard this before?
I've been looking too. I have an adware problem, it only seems to happen with the interesting sites!!! grr. I really have to learn my way around my computer!lol. I 've lost so much - books, notes , information. I worked as a researcher for the museum, when I was at college, I had access to university sources - Queens- Belfast and Dublin-Trinity, Oxford too! Wish I still had my notes and resources! I know the good stuff is out there - I need to get time to trawl properly, thank you for the info. Exilus, from me too. As usual, you are very knowledgable. I'll come back with something too, once I've got over the Festive fun - hope you're all having a wonderful festival time!!
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webbspinner
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I believe that your name has power. Anyone can know my second Magickal name, but not the first. I may as time goes on receive other names, none will hold the power as the first does. As to my everyday name many know it and say it, as far as I'm concerned its only a name. As to Deities, we know the names by which humankind has named them. Can we ever know the true names? This is MHO. ->O<-
It's bad luck to kill a spider...
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