Offended by karma

[The Dragon]

Our past lives have no true consequence on this one execpt as a learning tool. Maybe it is a collective Karma that "causes" bad things happen to good people.

I know this is going to upset people and I have said it before, using the Five year old child being raped it is what must happen why is it bad. No experance is a bad experance. The sexual assault has to happen for the cosmic balance to take place. Don't get me wrong I think it is as sick as the next sane person and I understand what it does to a child, thus would try to stop it if I had an idea it was happening. But if it to be nothing we do can stop it and then it can't be a bad thing. I know it is heartless but horrid things happen and you just have to suck it up and make yourself from it the earlier you learn that the better.

Deep. I have to say that I kinda of agree with you...

[The Dragon]

I met a Buddhist monk last year who took the concept of karma less literally - to him, it wasn't that you get direct, tangible rewards or punishments for your actions, but simply that you are affected by your own actions in the sense that they affect the world, which you then have to live in. He didn't feel that we get results exactly proportional to our actions, meted out by some cosmic judge. As he eloquently put it "if you're a jerk, then you have made the world that much more full of jerks, and then you have to live in that world."

I liked how it affirmed personal responsibility and consequence without any pat answers. I too am offended by really literal interpretations of karma/the law of return.

Wow!! The Buddhist interpretation of karma makes a good deal of sense. I am really learning something from this thread.

[Uruha]

I believe that karma is just a general guideline to promote self responsibility and teach people to respect each other. It should not be taken too literally for anything.

I met a Buddhist monk last year who took the concept of karma less literally - to him, it wasn't that you get direct, tangible rewards or punishments for your actions, but simply that you are affected by your own actions in the sense that they affect the world, which you then have to live in. He didn't feel that we get results exactly proportional to our actions, meted out by some cosmic judge. As he eloquently put it "if you're a jerk, then you have made the world that much more full of jerks, and then you have to live in that world."

I liked how it affirmed personal responsibility and consequence without any pat answers. I too am offended by really literal interpretations of karma/the law of return.

I think that this is one of the best ways that I have seen it put. And I agree with it fully. Thank you, Penelope!

~Uruha

[[HangedMan]]

I don't want to offend anyone who believes in it, but this is a serious question. I believe that it is good to be kind and positive most of the time, but it's not so much that I think I'm going to get something out of it. Sure, the positive aspect is fine and uplifting- if you're kind and do good things you'll be rewarded- so if something bad happens anyway does that mean you weren't good enough? It kind of smacks of faith healers blaming the patient for not believing enough. For those who believe karma is fairly direct- Do you think abused children and refugees who suffered atrocities in war torn countries are being punished for something? Maybe they were really bad in a past life?

Kolohe

i dunno. i often wonder why innocent people suffer like that as well. according to buddhism, which is where the concept of karma comes from, i would say that, yes-- it's possible that people (and other sentient beings like animals, insects, etc.) who go through such atrocities might be paying for a past life. or, it could just merely mean the *real* concept of karma in buddhism, which is, there is suffering (the 1st noble truth), and we just have to accept that. in other words, karma can be good and bad at the same time. for instance, let's say you go to a job interview. you really need the job b/c you're broke. let's say you get the job. that's good karma for you. however, remember: there were probably many other people who needed that job as well. they don't get it. that's bad karma for them. now let's say that one of the people who wanted the job now will be unable to get health insurance for an operation he needed to live. that's bad karma again. but some how he buys the winning lottery ticket that night and wins and is able to now afford the operation. that's good karma.

see what i mean? karma isn't really this system of punishment and reward. karma just IS-- you know? it's just situations we must deal with that lead us to one thing or another. our actions lead us to different karma all of the time, and we are always interconnected with other peoples' karma as well, as seen in the job interview example.

so i guess what i'm trying to say is, try not to think of karma in its mistaken form as a system of reward and punishment. karma is more of a checks and balances, i would say, than some cruel justice system. i think it just goes back to a basic idea that, you get what you give in your life. what you put forth, you get back. like one of the previous posters said about the monk-- if you are going to choose to do bad things, then you're just adding to your own reality of living in a wold where bad things happen. however if you just accept the world is full of suffering, and try to live as you would want others to treat you, then it's not so bad after all, and you are helping to promote that interconnected feeling of joy and peace.

[Seraphira]

I serious belief in Karma,

Alot of people hurt me for an example my grandfather was a pedophile and suffered his condition. I believe what you do to others comes back 3x3! he suffered a stroke and then had testulare cancer which went right to his brain in died in 3 months horrible pain. Ever since I was a child i believed in karma, though of revenage works agaist or hate will work againest you, no matter of a good person you are.

You have to take all the rage and pain, hate and force it out of our soul, ur being. All I seek is enlightment it's not the end of the path we seek, it's the walk we take in life that makes the impact within us.

I'v taken alot of beliefs from different religions most pagan beliefs, karma, and what i am feeling. If I help people to the end of my being, then i'v done my work.

This is a balance not between good and evil, but all life is important.

blessed be

[Stonehenge]

For me it is something personal and individual. I have seen it first hand in my life in the past few years. I have lashed out in anger at my child and wife over something so trivial, and moments later suffered my fingers being closed in the truck door. Once I realized the reason in my own mind the pain that should have been associated with the injury was about gone, and there were hardly no other after effects of the incident. there were three others there besides myself to witness all of this.

On a positive note, I did a favor for a couple neighborhood kids that wanted to buy this four wheeler that I had for sale, they kept looking at it for sale in the yard for weeks, they stopped by for like the 10th time and said they could only raise $900 cash but really wanted it. (I had it for sale for like $1200 I think.) I thought about it, and sold it to them. About a week later while driving down the highway with my daughter her friend and my wife, a couple of them said they'd like to stop to use the restroom. So O pulled over at the next exit and they went to the ladies room in the convient store, while I waited in the store, I bought me a drink and thought I'd get a scratch off lottery ticket (I don't usually buy them much, and if I do it is only 1-2 at a time.) as I drank my drink waiting for the girls to finish I scratched off the ticket to see that I had won $500, WOW , everyone was surprised, I gave the two girls behind the counter $100 out of it, they were like omg I was just wondering where I was going to get enough money to have gas in my car for the rest of the week.

so to me I think too that it is different for each of us in some way.

[[HangedMan]]

i totally agree, ron. i noticed the other day i started to get angry out of nowhere-- and all it did was snowball-- more bad things kept happening, b/c i kept putting that negative energy out there. once i forced myself to stop, cool down, and compose myself, it was all good.