God or Goddess?

[Constance]

In my personal opinion Christian Wicca is for folks who want their cake and eat it too. These are people who have too much guilt and/or fear to seperate the two. How can you honor the horned God and in the next breath shirk away from the Devil? As far as honoring the Goddess, Mary has revered...and I am glad that she is finally becoming more important in some churches. But immaculate conception? think about it...if she had told Joseph that she had either been raped or laid with another man...they would have stoned her to death...would you speak up? Hell no.
Alina, keep your studies up on the Goddesses that call to you, no one can prevent worship in your mind. Brightest Blessings to you, Firebird

I think you have wrong imagination about witches who practice Christian channels. All East Europe including such countries as Bulgaria, Romania, Ukraine, Russia have their traditional witchcraft that called Christian. They call themself as white witches, but calling themself white it doesnt mean they are good or pretend to be so, they are able to do all things just using church as the place for magic.
For example simple ritual, you buy a candle and lit it for health of your enemy, but put it up side down... next day your enemy will be sick. if you are white witch you know what words to say and which ikon to channel this candle through, so your enemy will get paralised.
If you go to greek or russian church and you see people in middle of church under church dome reading prays or psalm... they are not just reading, they do spell casting but they dont need to create anything new, everything is already in Old and New Testaments, little pray book and Psaltyr.

By the way Catholic version of Psaltyr is different to Orthodox or in Hebrew. Catholics excluded most dangerous parts and banned from usage.

[Lady Cael]

That's fascinating Constance. Russia's church culture has always been very rich with magic.

[Firebird]

Well, ... we do have New Orleans, and Voo Doo which I belive is Haitain witchcraft blended with Christianity, (or Catholic ) So I'm not saying peole don't do it...they do, this was so they could practice their magic under the guise of Christianity.
I personally can't conflict my Lord of the forest, protector of the animals, the horn-ed one, who would rise up, just to be sacrificed so that others might live, with a red devil with horns, who would taunt me to cross the line so that I would spend eternity frying with him in a place that would scare the living shit out of most people.
I know I sound like I am very angry, and in a way I am...we are struggling very hard to be recognized as a ligit religion and then everyone gives up and trys to make it all work. I am guilty of that as well, I celebrate Yule ...then I go to my Moms and celebrate Christmas...same with Ostara/Easter. But I am also an ordained minister of a pagan shamanistic tradition and have belonged to the interfaith counsil here in town...a place where we can be different and get along. We have debates and they get heated, but at the end of the day, I'm a pagan witch practicing a cycle that celebrates life, and all it has to offer, I ebb and flow with the sun and the moon, I am the seed sower, I am the life giver...I am the maiden the mother and the crone. I can see only one path for me and that is laid out on the earth before me...she speaks to me and she will speak to anyone who is open...all we have to do is trust and listen. Bright Blessings, Firebird

[Alina_Rose]

I know now that there is only one path for me as well... I can believe I ever turned my back on Wicca to join the murderers (aka Christians) I have been studying the witch burnings today and my anger and sadness is just kinda bubbling over... I cant believe I forgot about how they treated people, how they tortured the innocent and killed them. It is practically killing me just thinking about it.. I will never turn back again.

[Lady Cael]

@ Alina - Any religion that's very old has that type of history ... if it makes you feel any better...or worse. But I don't think you should turn back on the goddess that you feel connected to. Especially if doing so makes you angry and sad.

But, I have other things to discuss, because firebirds posts are fascinating, they teach and force me to look at the other side of things. I enjoy them, And now time for the quoting cause I want to do this slowly. And discuss it more.

"I personally can't conflict my Lord of the forest, protector of the animals, the horn-ed one, who would rise up, just to be sacrificed so that others might live"

The God I believe in, is the new testament God, not the old testament God. Which are two very different Gods. He has no name. He has no face to me, he hasn't ever, until very recently. He was always just a feeling. The kind father, the patient one, the one who always listens. So when you talk about the Lord of the Forest, I see God , another title for God. When I hear, 'Horn-ed' one I picture the deer antlers of a wise and old buck. I worship the Lord of the Forest. Jesus had to die on the cross to save humanity from the curse the old testament God had place on us. Of course he rose again a few days after. Very pagan in the cycle, life, death, rebirth.

..."with a red devil with horns, who would taunt me to cross the line so that I would spend eternity frying with him in a place that would scare the living shit out of most people."

I've never viewed the devil that way. I suppose that's the way he's been treated over the years. Red with horns.... I've always thought of Lucifer as the devil. Sharply dressed middle aged man, who speaks in beautiful lies. Smart and cunning. Not the "BWWWWHHHAHAHAH" evil moron devil we see in movies. And perhaps 'devil' is just a word for 'enemy of God'. After all, in Gnostic texts the Serpent in the garden isn't evil, it's the Holy Spirit trying to get Eve to eat knowledge to fill her with wisdom and free her from the old testament God... And getting a little to deep here. Sorry. I'm still working out how I feel about the devil. He or she , might not be all that bad. Just the being who challenges God's thinking.

"we are struggling very hard to be recognized as a ligit religion and then everyone gives up and trys to make it all work."

Your worried that if the rules of the religion change over time that it won't be legit? I think you shouldn't worry. New ideas, and changes, mean there's more people interested in the religion, thus making it more legit. All religions change over time, and even big rules can change. A forest may grow and change, but it'll still be a forest. And...I think you get my point. Christianity couldn't have survived if it didn't allow for other cultures and religions to blend their ideas into it, if Wicca tries to stay rigid and unbending, it will surely die. And I'm not taking Christianity and magic and saying, bam Wicca. No, no, no. I'm recognizing my God, as the Lord of the Forest, and the Holy Spirit as the Goddess. For all intents and purposes I am Wiccan, and we're just getting caught up on what I choose to call the God and Goddess.