Can You Believe in Certain God/desses or All of Them?

[Kat]

when I use my intuition I pray to Bast but when I make up a spell for a specific thing the gods are unnamed.
seidkonacat I believe the ''universal'' gods are inside us all; that we re pieces of its puzzle and each of us gives it another name. But not outside of us no; i don't believe in an outside universal deity by any name.

[loona wynd]

I think it makes perfect sense, and I would love to see those links.

They aren't links persay but paths I know of that are reconbased.

Celtic reconstrictionism is just called Celtic Reconstructionist Paganism (also Celtic Reconstructionism or CR). This is basically an attempt to reconstruct Celtic paganism. Though Celtic recons have typically one of the Celtic cultures that they specifically follow for this practice. While they may study all of the Celtic myths and lore in general CR pagans typically focus on one of the Celtic tribal groups. Each group may have an individual name like: NicDhàna, ní Dhoireann for groups in general. Then you have groups that have focuses like Gaelic Paganism (Scottish Gaelic, "Pàganachd" Irish version, Págánacht).

Asatru is Germanic Reconstriction. Though there are a few other variations and styles some less strict. Other types of Germanic reconstruction includes Iminism which is specific to Germany or German specific versions of the Norse Myths. Then you have Heathenry which is a very less strict form of Germanic reconstruction. Most Heathens I have met online are witches so that is something to think about. You also have Anglo-Saxon styles of Germanic paganism that also use recon methods.

Hellenismos is Greek Paganism. You study many different Greek Cults or regional God religions. In Hellenic paganism because there was not a central religion but smaller regional cults to specific local Gods in relation to the other God Cults its can be difficult to create a central focus and practice of this religion. In this path its best to find the few Gods you want to focus on and find their holidays and rituals.

In Hellenismos you often find that witchcraft is not really practiced. Most Hellenic witches will find Goddesses like Circe and Hecate were few of the regional cult centers that practiced witchcraft. For Hellenic witchcraft and magic the study of those cults and tablets is a useful idea. Given that witchcraft in Greece was considering trying to control the will of the Gods you can see how only some traditions and areas would have witchcraft and it was a very specific practice to the area.

Religio Romano is Roman religion. Though this is not Italian reconstruction. Its important to make that distinction. Prior to the Roman conquest of Italy, Italy wasn't one country but a smaller group of countries that lived in a regional area and shared a basic dialect. When Rome took over a central religion and practice developed. This is the religion of the ancient pagan Roman Empire. This is religio Romano.

Stregheria or La Vecchia Religione ("the Old Religion") is related to Religio Romano in that it is witchcraft. Here you have different traditions and styles based on the region of Italy that the witchcraft is coming from. In general though the main sources on Italian witchcraft aside from Raven Grimassi are the works of Charles Leland including the Gospel of Witches, Etruscan Roman Remains in Popular Tradition, and Etruscan Roman Remains. When you add Grimassi's work into the picture you have a folklorist view and a hereditary practice combined to get a complete idea of the religion and practice.

Kemeticism is the reconstruction of Egyptian Paganism. This is probably the best preserved of all the ancient pagan paths due to the writings in the pyramids and elsewhere. Kemetic pagans have a lot of lore to choose from that is very descriptive in the rituals and the practices of magic and Egypt. One of the other reasons we know more about Egyptian religion is that Egyptology was one of the driving forces in anthropology for a long time, combined with the amazing preservation of the historic sites with writings makes for an easier religion to find information on.

There is also the group of religions in Mesopotamia that is simply Mesopotamia Recon. This group includes Sumerian, Akkadian, Babylonian, and Assyrian cultures. Here you find works like the Epic of Gilgamesh of importance. These religions may even predate Kemetic paganism. The writings here are less common to be found due to age. The style of writing involved here was cuneiform a precursor to the hieroglyphics that the Egyptians used.

Wikipedia had a further list which includes:

Armenian: Hetanism
Baltic: Baltic Neopaganism
Caucasian: Caucasian Neopaganism
Hungarian: Hungarian Neopaganism
Semitic: Semitic Neopaganism
Slavic: Rodnovery
Uralic: Uralic Neopaganism

I definitely consider myself a reconstructive pagan, though I follow more than one tradition.

I agree. That's why I apply recon methods to my own spiritual paths. Though I am a little more open and loose than other people may be. For example as well as scholarship and historical works by anthropologists on the topics I also look at other views. Like the Opera based on the Ring Saga in Germanic paganism I would consider a source to gaining more broad understandings of the lore. Another example is I also put a lot of stock into modern pagan books for how the modern feel would be.

Though the method of reading and researching source texts and not most modern books on the myths and looking at anthropology on the culture combined with modern books and teachers I have found my own way of recreating ancient pagan paths. Though I make sure I follow as much as I can the cultural ways when I practice ritual in that manner,

I find that recons so long as the worship of the different pantheons or cultures is separate then you can follow more than one path. Its about respecting the Gods and making sure that you worship them in a way that would have been appropriate in that particular culture.

This is also why recons who may worship different Gods in different cultures will keep the worship separate. The different cultural groups all had different styles and types of rituals. So it makes sense to worship Greek Gods with Greek Rituals and Norse Gods with Norse Rituals. It is also respectful as they were separate cultures.

I mainly worship the Norse deities myself, particularly Saga. I also worship Roman and Etruscan deities for my father's side of the family (he's Italian, my mother Irish and French--of Normandy descent.) I love learning how ancient cultures worshiped.

Than Asatru or other forms of Germanic paganism as well as Religio-Romana or Strega may be religions for you to look into. Both the Germanic traditions and the Italian traditions have strong witchcraft traditions found within them.

I'm still unsure on the question of whether or not there is a universal god or goddess. My viewpoint is mostly polytheistic--every pantheon existing more-or-less independently. However, the more I read, the more I learn, and I won't go so far as to completely discount pantheism. There are some strong arguments in its favor.

I'm a polytheistic animist who is an omnitheist. I do believe in a universal force that is divine which is more Panentheistic both apart of the universe and everything but also separate from it, though that force is so massive and beyond comprehension I don't worship but can feel its results and presence when I do magic.

[loona wynd]

when I use my intuition I pray to Bast but when I make up a spell for a specific thing the gods are unnamed.
seidkonacat I believe the ''universal'' gods are inside us all; that we re pieces of its puzzle and each of us gives it another name. But not outside of us no; i don't believe in an outside universal deity by any name.

So by being inside us and part of us that could be a form of pantheism or a form of panentheism as well as animisim.

[Kat]

what's the difference of pantheism and panenthism loona?

I perceive the universal god as one within us. we re all one just like siblings sharing the family fortune. I don't know how this is called. like males are little gods and females are little godesses.

[loona wynd]

what's the difference of pantheism and panenthism loona?

I perceive the universal god as one within us. we re all one just like siblings sharing the family fortune. I don't know how this is called. like males are little gods and females are little godesses.

Pantheism the divine basically is everything in the universe. The universe is divine.

Panentheism the divine makes up the universe and is the universe but is also separate from the universe.

This thread here really deals with different concepts on the divine.

If you believe in any form of individual divine entity as a separate an unique person its Hard Polytheism. If you believe that there may be a Godsof War and God of wisdom for example all named and experienced differently in different cultures that is a form of soft polytheism. Further is along in soft polytheism is the beliefs that all Gods are one God and all Goddesses one God. Sometimes this is taken even further to say that the God and Goddess here that are all other Gods and Goddesses are actually part of one divine being. This is another form of Polytheism with monotheistic overtones.

[Kat]

lol confusing. I read in wikipedia that panentheism means god transends? like an immortal does. I find that unlikely. and polytheism soft as u describe it makes sense. what u think?

[Xiao Rong]

Kat, panentheism means that "God/dess is in the world", and that She is both immanent (manifested throughout the world) and transcendent (beyond the world) at the same time. In my personal understanding, I see the Goddess as being the consciousness or the soul of the whole universe, and the universe is her body.

[loona wynd]

lol confusing. I read in wikipedia that panentheism means god transends? like an immortal does. I find that unlikely. and polytheism soft as u describe it makes sense. what u think?

If that is what makes sense to you than that is what makes sense to you. The divine is a mystery. This is a mystery that we must all come to know and understand ourselves. If that sounds like it comes from AA or another 12 step program, its because their typical response about finding God as you come to know him basically describes my feelings about the divine in general. Because you asked my view on the divine I am going to give it to you. Please let me know if this is too complicated for you, or if you need clarification.

I live a constantly evolving paradox in some ways. I am an omnitheist. Its an all encompassing view of the divine. I say all encompassing because depending on what sort of ritual I am working my view on the divine will change or be modified. I make room for experiences of the divine in basically any and all formats as I believe the overall Divine to be something that humans can not fully understand in our form. This also means I will and have experienced the divine in many different forms.

Basically I am a Hard Polytheist in that I believe in all individual Gods in pantheons and religions. I may not have encountered them all like I've never met to my knowledge any of the Gods associated with Chinese religions or Hinduism or even Native American traditions, but I still believe those Gods are individual beings. This also means that I Do believe in Yaweh/Allah/Jehovah or the God of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. I can't emphasis this enough. I just believe that they are an individual God among many.

This also means that when I work a ritual from the context of a soft polytheistic view where they believe all the Gods are one God and all the Goddesses are one Goddess I believe the God and Goddess of that religion are a unique God and Goddess whose impressions are a combination of the psychological archetypes of the many Gods and Goddesses in literature. So I believe that there is a God and Goddess out there who through modern Wicca and Modern religious witchcraft movements who is a manifested form and force of All Gods and all Goddesses, though each person in this religious form focuses on specific names to them it doesn't matter and to this divine duo the names do not matter. They are nameless and yet have many names.

Like wise my belief in the God of the three big religions allows me to attend church services with family members and treat it as I would the worship of any other God within their specific religious constraints. Yaweh and I have an understanding of sorts in that I believe in him and have accepted that he is the supreme God in those religions. However I never in the Christian tradition I was a heretic of sorts believing that the trinity was a set of three divine beings. So like I said we've reached an understanding of sorts that is uncomfortable at best for the both of us. I maintain my belief that he is one of many thousands of Gods and I treat the church services as that Gods particular style of worship.

In this way it is not any different than how I outlined I have approached the worship of Greek Gods and Norse Gods. In case you didn't see the post basically I said:

I find that recons so long as the worship of the different pantheons or cultures is separate then you can follow more than one path. Its about respecting the Gods and making sure that you worship them in a way that would have been appropriate in that particular culture.

This is also why recons who may worship different Gods in different cultures will keep the worship separate. The different cultural groups all had different styles and types of rituals. So it makes sense to worship Greek Gods with Greek Rituals and Norse Gods with Norse Rituals. It is also respectful as they were separate cultures.

In this way I treat Christianity as a culture which it really is. The Christian worldview has impacted the world culture in many ways, so when I go to church I feel that I am engaging in that aspect of the culture I live in, as well as the culture where this God (Yaweh) is worshiped.

I believe that all the Gods of the Greek pantheon are individuals. I believe that all the Gods of the Norse pantheon are individuals (to the point where even the tribal differences in views and concepts may actually be different divine forces) an so forth for each pantheon. I even believe that the 12 big Gods of the Greek pantheon and the 12 great Gods of the Roman pantheon who are often said to be the same beings are separate beings (Zeus and Jupiter are different Gods in my view and not the same as in other views of the two pantheons).

I have experienced too many different types of divine individuals to not believe that in some way all views of the divine are true. This is why I consider myself to be an omnitheist. While I believe that there are individual Gods and Goddesses (Athena, Frigga, Isis, Ceriweden, etc to name a few and only a few) as individual people (like I am different from you) I also believe that there may be an overruling God of each force like there may be a generic Goddess of Love and God of war that are essentially made up of all the other Gods of each force).

I have experienced individual divine forces and I have experienced overarching all encompassing divine forces. I believe all paths hold truths. This is why I believe that by studying all religions and philosophies I can gain even more insight into the divine and the mysteries of the universe. In this way I may also be a chaos magician where I change paradigms as needed for ritual and spiritual work, if so than I am a chaos witch. I've experienced too many different styles of the divine manifesting to not believe that all versions of the divine are true.

[loona wynd]

Kat, panentheism means that "God/dess is in the world", and that She is both immanent (manifested throughout the world) and transcendent (beyond the world) at the same time. In my personal understanding, I see the Goddess as being the consciousness or the soul of the whole universe, and the universe is her body.

That is a good way of putting it.