Can one be a Christian and still believe in wicca philosophy

[[ForestWitch]]

It depends on how you define "Christian." I consider myself to be a Christo-pagan because I do have tremendous respect for the teachings of Christ and I do think he was an earthly manifestation of the Deity. Where my beliefs part ways with traditional Christianity is that I don't believe that Christ was the only earthly manifestation of the Deity, I don't believe that the immortality of my soul is predicated on "accepting Jesus Christ as my personal savior" and I reject nearly all of traditional Christian dogma. Thus, I may consider myself to be, in some sense, a Christian but many Christians would say I am not. In my opinion, people who categorically believe that you can't combine the two have too narrow a definition of Christianity.

As I'm sure you know, there are people who call themselves Christian Wiccans. There are also people who call themselves Christian witches and many of them are actually quite traditional Christians in that they are active in traditional Christian churches (usually Catholic or liberal Protestant) but they also practice magick.

ETA: Depending on where you are located, a good place to begin becoming educated about the similarities and differences might be a Unitarian Universalist Fellowship.

[kuotetsu]

I appreciate Christian teachings, it's inspiring. I came up with Christian family and I don't mind it at all.. All I can think about these religious facts and stuffs are quite interrelated. You see most of religions are quite synonymous with each other. Since most of the people nowadays really accept post-modernity, we can incorporate most things with everything and associate it. It's up to you whether you will carry things out because it is your belief, not ours, and it's your prerogative to do whatever appeals to you

[Eretik]

There are people who tell you that you CAN'T do things your way, there are those who demand dogma is adhered to.Dogma is not belief, it's a system of order imposed on those who believe,a system,to run the organisation of the faithful,generally.I see no problems with the teachings of Jesus.That is a noble path, to walk in his footsteps.I find it amusing, when trying to speak with a fundie how they 'flip' when it's pointed out to them that Jesus was a Jew, he was born a Jew and died a Jew.He founded Christianity but was not Christian himself.That is no big thing, really, but it is to them.How truly daft they are.You should not listen to the naysayers,they do not live your life for you, but will happily try to control it,if you let them in.I'm rambly today,sorry, but there is a valid point in there somewhere.lol.

[jcrowfoot]

Also, keep in mind that "Witchcraft" is one thing and "Wicca" is another. It's very easy and sound to be a Christian Witch, if that appeals to you.

It's often convenient to use them interchangably (wiccan and witchcraft) since witchcraft is usually a big part of Wicca. (not in all practices. I had a teacher who was Wiccan who didn't really use magick nor believed in it's effectiveness) I should stress that if someone has Capitalized "Witchcraft" they probably mean something like Wicca or as a pseudonym of Wicca, but not always. Some people will frequently call any magical practice, particularly if it's folk magick, witchcraft.

Christian witches are remarkably common, btw. In fact, many of the witches who died back in the bad old days were just that, Christian witches, or just herb wives who made more money than the "official" doctors/broke noblemen were comfortable with. ie. Cash cow... there was a lot of financial incentive. There was a Europe-wide depression going on right about then... thanks to plague and the 30 years war (War? Did I meantion war? Being in a war really does something to the psyche, especially before we had modern techniques for adapting to civilization again afterwords.)

While we may tell stories by the fireplace about the Burning Times, I must point out that the Church was also very likely to look the other way about magick, as long as healing was done. (But if someone's cow died unexplicably, hiding was probably advised) Further, there's evidence that the hysteria that led to the witch burnings stemmed from memories of the Black Death, which freaked people out in general. For good reason, considering.They, did, after all, think that God was punishing them (imagine everyone you know and love suddenly dying horribly and you get some perspective) for *something* so they dug through their coffers and tried to find any scrap of a thing that was frowned apon in the bible and got rid of it, quick. This was before we had germ theory, after all.
So, sure, anti-pagan sentiments. But that was pretty much anti-anything frowned apon in the bible.

Also, keep in mind that thieves and other miscreants were often hung or put to death in those days... and justice was more likely to be meted out by friends and neighbors rather than the local authority, who was more interested in staying an authority than actually helping out their subjects... with a few notable but rare exceptions.

Further, I'll point out that Christians in general frequently practice magick, they are just touchy about it's outward form. Social pressures are a big deal with them... or I should say, conformity is more valued. With pagans, being different (as long as we can all agree about the differences ! ;P) is apart of the group identity.

Granted, even these last rules aren't universal. The Unitarians like being different, for example. It just really depends on your church (if any) and conscience.

[Sobek]

I personally dont see the gripe(well I do but thats a matter for later)

People are always complaining that christianity stole old paganism. Wicca seems to have done the same thing...who cares if they blend their beliefs...it's been happening a long time and there are many terms for it but the one I am familliar with is syncretism.

Also depends on if the person is secular christian or devout. to me a christian is a bible toter...you claim to be of a religion, you should atleast follow the rules as dictated by your holy book. One can believe in the christian god and not be christian. simplistic

[jcrowfoot]

Wouldn't this discussion be so much easier if any of the major Christian faiths actually believed in ALL the tenants of their bible? Then... they'd be Jewish.

Part of the problem is that Jesus back in the day changed all the old rules and basically said (extremely paraphrased) , "Yo. Love is the most important thing. Many of these rules are extreme and punitive, and are extraneous to God's love."

The problem lies in the fact that it's hard to tell which rules are suspended from the old testament and which aren't. (Let's not even get started on how much has changed since then! Talk about parallax!) This has caused many wars and trouble over the years. Just check out the last couple thousand years of European history for details. Say what you like about the high church Christian flavors, they sure went in for religious documentation in a major way.

My personal bid for the "Christian" label has more to do with personal saviors than it does with church affiliations. My $1.65.

[Faithy]

Very Interesting Thread!
This hits close to home for me because i have similar beliefs and am in the process of trying to figure out what exactly i agree with from both Christianity and the Wiccan religion.
I don't worship the pagan god or goddesses, or actually cast "spells" i have a strong aversion to interfering with any others free will. I do however use tarot as a means of divination, and for it am constantly deemed a witch by Christians. I have yet to however find a verse in the bible that says it is a sin to use tarot cards, and when i point out that some of the great kings of the old testaments and new used prophets, or oracles to get messages from god through prophetic dreams, visions, and rune casting, but somehow that was OK for them not for me?? I feel like the christian religion has been distorted by men, and what the church says and what the Bible says 90% of the time are two different things. Also i believe in herb use, charms, prayers, chants, and as was previously pointed out, Christians themselves do spells of all sorts, they just don't call them that.
I think you can believe in both, just as long as you're honest with yourself and stick to what you feel is true and right.
sorry if this got a tad lengthy, i just have spent so much time pondering it in context to myself it will be great to hear what others think.

[elemental_13]

I don't see why you can't combine the two personally. They follow a lot of the same moral tenants. It's your spiritual life and in the end no one can decide what is right but yourself. Christianity has become extremely distorted over the years. It's all about how you interpret the bible.

I myself, believe that Jesus was a great guy, a prophet maybe even. And definitely someone to model your life after. But do I believe he was the son of god? Well, in theory the bible says we are all sons and daughters of god, I just don't agree with the only begotten part. Does that make sense?

Anyway, just follow your heart. (How cliche does that sound?!) No one else has the authority or any right to judge you when it comes to spirituality.

[Shadow_Kitten]

What a lot of people don't understand is that Wicca & Christianity actually have more similarities than they have differences. There is a Christian Wicca Tradition, just like there is Gardnerian Wicca & Strega Wicca. Christian Wiccans do exactly what you want to do; combine the two religions. Google Christian Wicca, you should find a whole heap of stuff.

If Christian Wicca doesn't appeal to you there's always the option of being eclectic.

[juliaki]

Just be careful who you suggest to that there's a "Strega Wicca" tradition...that could be considered a killing offense insult!

[kgwitch]

Well, I'd say it was fine... but I wouldn't tell my church. You should go with what YOU beleave in, but realistically you'll be judged because of it.

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"
Which basically means, put her/ him to death, he/she's evil.

Some religious societies are just very narrow minded and are just too set in their ways to consider anything different.

[jcrowfoot]

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"

This is a relatively recent interpretation for this passage. What it REALLY says, is "thou shalt not suffer a well poisoner to live." In other words, people who commit genocide, or damage water supply.

How can I call poisoning wells genocide? Well, the folks who wrote that book were essentially nomads in the desert. Poison one well, and you kill off an entire tribe of people and everyone who passes though that area for as long as the poison lasts.

This is not just Pagan rhetoric. I have heard this on good authority from a number of different *Christian* scholars from different traditions... including one Jewish one.

EDIT:
I should also mention that it's widely known that the above interpretation is most common to the King James version, and he is known to have altered the bible in a number of areas to support his own campaign of literal witch hunts. It was considered an inferior translation even when it was first published.

[kgwitch]

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"

I should also mention that it's widely known that the above interpretation is most common to the King James version, and he is known to have altered the bible in a number of areas to support his own campaign of literal witch hunts. It was considered an inferior translation even when it was first published.

Really, that's interesting, I wasn't aware of that... can't say I'm suprised though, it's funny how the bible tends to loose and gain certain rules... you might consider it 'magick'!

[jcrowfoot]

It's all the fault of that famous reprieve that made that guy with a radical concept... in religion, shouldn't love be freely given in both directions?
It's still not clear to this day what all is covered in this reprieve.
And Paul made it complicated,too.

But don't get me started. LOL.

[[cherokeewind]]

People who translate the Bible often put their personal beliefs into text when translating. From what I remember about the King James, I think a different person was assigned for each book of the Bible. The reason was to keep any one person from manipulating text translation throughout the whole Bible. Some Bible translators may have been fairly honest while others intentionally distorted some text to fit their own personal theology.

The Jewish religion was very strict, even calling for death by stoning for certain violations.