you saw it here first:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... LI3IO1.DTL
possible scientific explaination for out of body experiences
Just to add a bit of sanity. Certain people have epilepsy which is so severe that they elect to have brain surgery to attempt to correct it. Apparently this type of surgery offers genuine life-chaning relief to certain individuals.
In preparation for this surgery, electrodes are placed into various areas of the brain and are stimulated in order to identify which areas of the brain are central to seizure action (and are candidates for tissue removal) and which areas cannot be touched because it may cause a severe disability in language, cognition or coordination.
This procedure allows brain surgery to be performed more accurately and with a lowered risk of debilitating after-effects. It has nothing to do with electro-convulsive therapy.
I'm not sure that the anecdotal comments by various physicians constitutes either proof or disproof of the validity of a 'super-natural' out-of-body experience. However, assuming their observations are relatively unbiased, we can probably learn something from them. It's entirely possible that these effects have absolutely nothing to do with out-of-body experiences.
T. Guy.
In preparation for this surgery, electrodes are placed into various areas of the brain and are stimulated in order to identify which areas of the brain are central to seizure action (and are candidates for tissue removal) and which areas cannot be touched because it may cause a severe disability in language, cognition or coordination.
This procedure allows brain surgery to be performed more accurately and with a lowered risk of debilitating after-effects. It has nothing to do with electro-convulsive therapy.
I'm not sure that the anecdotal comments by various physicians constitutes either proof or disproof of the validity of a 'super-natural' out-of-body experience. However, assuming their observations are relatively unbiased, we can probably learn something from them. It's entirely possible that these effects have absolutely nothing to do with out-of-body experiences.
T. Guy.
Just to add a bit of sanity. Certain people have epilepsy which is so severe that they elect to have brain surgery to attempt to correct it. Apparently this type of surgery offers genuine life-chaning relief to certain individuals.
T. Guy.
I know of two people who have had such surgeries, which before were almost completely incapacitated and unable to lead normal everyday lives, their seizures were so severe. Since their respective surgeries, one has been down to about one seizure every month or so, the other has had only a handful in a year and a half. Both lead pretty much completely normal lives at this point, with the rare interruption of a seizure, which for both have been greatly reduced in severity.
As for the article...I don't know. Maybe they're right. Or maybe they've found another cause for OBE other than whatever causes those in people whose brains aren't being probed?
I just find it fascinating that in the various forums where I've posted this, it's either been generally ignored or dismissed out of hand of any possible validity.
Ok I want to clear up a little bit of what I said.
The reason I look at science as another form of religion.
Medicle doctors scientists and all rely on educated theory, not fact. But they expect everyone in the world to accept it as such.
But in actuality nothing in the world that is said to help you live longer is proven to work. My theory on this is this.
If I smoke 28 packs of ciggerettes a day, It will kill me or so they say and I will die(if I am lucky as soon a light the last ciggerett in the 28th pack) Now lets say i die at 1pm on the 28th of may. at 22
Now Another person similar to me exact age exact build doesn't smoke and he lives to die at the age of 93 at the 11pm on the 30th of may.
and test subject 3 also doesnt smoke he lives untill he is 34 and dies on the 1 of january
and test 4 does smoke two packs a day for his whole life and lives to 93 and dies.
Now the person against smoking would say its proof that smoking has a 10 percent chance of killing you.
But in fact all they have successfully proven is that four people with two different life styles all died as the gods or mortality wished them to.
You can never prove anything, the only way to prove something would to be if test subject one after dieing did everything he did before, and came back to redo his life and except smoking and on may the 28th of his 22 year at 1 pm a car did not run him over or some other form of accident didnt end his life.
and that would have to apply to all four test subjects to truly prove anything, because in the end you can only say we beleive this, I say that everytime someone asks me about my beleifs.
When you are truly sick you wish for anything to make you better, Shock theropy hell I probally would have tried it if they had said it would cure my cancer, and in the end it wasnt chemo, it wasnt radiation it was my simple will to live or it just wasnt my time. I can honestly say this because they had stopped the chemo and radiation three months before I went into remission, and I had already started to make arrangments for your own funeral, not an easy or fun task.
When the doctor told me I was in remission I then got the pleasure of clling the funeral home and everything and saying oh I am gonna live.
and though this may help I dont know I am not a doctor, but saying a person sees things when you pass electrical curents through there mind, Sorry I see things when I take mushrooms, and some of them I could honestly beleive, but it doesnt prove out of body expereinces one bit.
In order to truly beleive this they would have to monitor a persons mind right at the point of death and I don't mean brain death I mean normal systole (Which for the young) means that the heart is quivering but not beating, this is your best chance to be brought back, when it goes into a full Flat line or Asystole: A dire form of cardiac arrest in which the heart stops beating -- there is no systole, A paramedic will not even start CPR on you.
Then they would have to bring the person back this would require an extreme form of controle both over the patient if not the willingness to kill them yourself, and then see if elecrtic was truly passing through the parts of the brain at the time.
No doctor in his right mind who wished to stay out of jail would do this. So therfore that form of test will not be applied. So in the end you get the we beleive that just because we shock someone and disrupt their flow of electric they see this, this is what this is. Again points to the shrooms post, I could easily say the same things there, by poinsoning myself and disrupting the flow of blood to my brain I halucinate and have things happen, does this mean that if your heart stops its an halucination no, it just means that doing this will cause halucinations.
The reason I look at science as another form of religion.
Medicle doctors scientists and all rely on educated theory, not fact. But they expect everyone in the world to accept it as such.
But in actuality nothing in the world that is said to help you live longer is proven to work. My theory on this is this.
If I smoke 28 packs of ciggerettes a day, It will kill me or so they say and I will die(if I am lucky as soon a light the last ciggerett in the 28th pack) Now lets say i die at 1pm on the 28th of may. at 22
Now Another person similar to me exact age exact build doesn't smoke and he lives to die at the age of 93 at the 11pm on the 30th of may.
and test subject 3 also doesnt smoke he lives untill he is 34 and dies on the 1 of january
and test 4 does smoke two packs a day for his whole life and lives to 93 and dies.
Now the person against smoking would say its proof that smoking has a 10 percent chance of killing you.
But in fact all they have successfully proven is that four people with two different life styles all died as the gods or mortality wished them to.
You can never prove anything, the only way to prove something would to be if test subject one after dieing did everything he did before, and came back to redo his life and except smoking and on may the 28th of his 22 year at 1 pm a car did not run him over or some other form of accident didnt end his life.
and that would have to apply to all four test subjects to truly prove anything, because in the end you can only say we beleive this, I say that everytime someone asks me about my beleifs.
When you are truly sick you wish for anything to make you better, Shock theropy hell I probally would have tried it if they had said it would cure my cancer, and in the end it wasnt chemo, it wasnt radiation it was my simple will to live or it just wasnt my time. I can honestly say this because they had stopped the chemo and radiation three months before I went into remission, and I had already started to make arrangments for your own funeral, not an easy or fun task.
When the doctor told me I was in remission I then got the pleasure of clling the funeral home and everything and saying oh I am gonna live.
and though this may help I dont know I am not a doctor, but saying a person sees things when you pass electrical curents through there mind, Sorry I see things when I take mushrooms, and some of them I could honestly beleive, but it doesnt prove out of body expereinces one bit.
In order to truly beleive this they would have to monitor a persons mind right at the point of death and I don't mean brain death I mean normal systole (Which for the young) means that the heart is quivering but not beating, this is your best chance to be brought back, when it goes into a full Flat line or Asystole: A dire form of cardiac arrest in which the heart stops beating -- there is no systole, A paramedic will not even start CPR on you.
Then they would have to bring the person back this would require an extreme form of controle both over the patient if not the willingness to kill them yourself, and then see if elecrtic was truly passing through the parts of the brain at the time.
No doctor in his right mind who wished to stay out of jail would do this. So therfore that form of test will not be applied. So in the end you get the we beleive that just because we shock someone and disrupt their flow of electric they see this, this is what this is. Again points to the shrooms post, I could easily say the same things there, by poinsoning myself and disrupting the flow of blood to my brain I halucinate and have things happen, does this mean that if your heart stops its an halucination no, it just means that doing this will cause halucinations.
-
forgottenDuo
I agree on one point, disagree on another.
There are several scientific "explanations" for OOB experiences, have been for years. More power to them, I hope they find the answers they are looking for.
"There are several theories as to why people have OBEs. A common link between them is the idea that in certain circumstances the brain somehow loses touch with sensory information coming in from the body. This triggers a series of psychological mechanisms which can lead to someone having an OBE."
However, I don't agree with the statement -
-If you smoke, your twice as likely as I am to have a stroke.
-Secondhand smoke is responsible for between 150,000 and 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections in infants and children under 18 months of age, resulting in between 7,500 and 15,000 hospitalizations each year, and causes 1,900 to 2,700 sudden infant deaths in the United States annually.
-About 8.6 million people in the U.S. have at least one serious illness caused by smoking. That means that for every person who dies of a smoking-related disease, there are 20 more people who suffer from at least one serious illness associated with smoking.
I'll try to get off my soapbox now, but I have to admit I take things like this a little personally. The Gods did not do this to people, PEOPLE did this to people. I'm guessing no diety came down from the heavens and put that cigarette, or other harmful substance in any individuals hand. We make choices everyday that may potentially kill us, people need to suck it up and take responibility for their actions.
And on a side note, in all honesty I can say I've never worked with a doctor that told a patient the exact day they were going to die, much less the exact time.
Jen
There are several scientific "explanations" for OOB experiences, have been for years. More power to them, I hope they find the answers they are looking for.
"There are several theories as to why people have OBEs. A common link between them is the idea that in certain circumstances the brain somehow loses touch with sensory information coming in from the body. This triggers a series of psychological mechanisms which can lead to someone having an OBE."
However, I don't agree with the statement -
There are many proven medical facts, many of them related to smoking, since you brought it up. Just because it's a statistic doesn't mean it isn't true."Medicle doctors scientists and all rely on educated theory, not fact. But they expect everyone in the world to accept it as such.
But in actuality nothing in the world that is said to help you live longer is proven to work. My theory on this is this.
If I smoke 28 packs of ciggerettes a day, It will kill me or so they say and I will die(if I am lucky as soon a light the last ciggerett in the 28th pack) Now lets say i die at 1pm on the 28th of may. at 22"
-If you smoke, your twice as likely as I am to have a stroke.
-Secondhand smoke is responsible for between 150,000 and 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections in infants and children under 18 months of age, resulting in between 7,500 and 15,000 hospitalizations each year, and causes 1,900 to 2,700 sudden infant deaths in the United States annually.
-About 8.6 million people in the U.S. have at least one serious illness caused by smoking. That means that for every person who dies of a smoking-related disease, there are 20 more people who suffer from at least one serious illness associated with smoking.
I'll try to get off my soapbox now, but I have to admit I take things like this a little personally. The Gods did not do this to people, PEOPLE did this to people. I'm guessing no diety came down from the heavens and put that cigarette, or other harmful substance in any individuals hand. We make choices everyday that may potentially kill us, people need to suck it up and take responibility for their actions.
And on a side note, in all honesty I can say I've never worked with a doctor that told a patient the exact day they were going to die, much less the exact time.
Jen
Jen whilke I half agree with you I also disagree with you in one aspect as well.
and you missed the point, Wether you beleive it is proven or not as I said in another post I culd spend all day, throwing out different examples how people who dont smoke die, that will scare you in a hundred different things that gods didn't put into our hands.
The point is weather we stop doing it or not, I dont beleive anything is proven the statisics you have named are printed and usally studied by someone who doesnt even smoke, but the point remains that, the only way you can prove that someone life could have been changed by them not smoking is for that person. NOt another not a statistic of 50000 people who might be almost the same with almost same reactions. But that person, own actual life.
you have to be able for that person to live and due it twice. Infact in our religion both tobacco, pajoti, and marajuanna were used in rituals all the time. people live people die, and no medicle science will ever change that.
Living longer is great but to quote my doctor when I said its not fair I am simply 25, I am not that old. When the gods call you home there is nothing that can change it. Getting people to quit something smoking bungee jumping or a plethera of a thousand things can never ever change that fact.
when it is your time it is your time. and it wasn't just for smoking it was meant for alot of things.
and you missed the point, Wether you beleive it is proven or not as I said in another post I culd spend all day, throwing out different examples how people who dont smoke die, that will scare you in a hundred different things that gods didn't put into our hands.
The point is weather we stop doing it or not, I dont beleive anything is proven the statisics you have named are printed and usally studied by someone who doesnt even smoke, but the point remains that, the only way you can prove that someone life could have been changed by them not smoking is for that person. NOt another not a statistic of 50000 people who might be almost the same with almost same reactions. But that person, own actual life.
you have to be able for that person to live and due it twice. Infact in our religion both tobacco, pajoti, and marajuanna were used in rituals all the time. people live people die, and no medicle science will ever change that.
Living longer is great but to quote my doctor when I said its not fair I am simply 25, I am not that old. When the gods call you home there is nothing that can change it. Getting people to quit something smoking bungee jumping or a plethera of a thousand things can never ever change that fact.
when it is your time it is your time. and it wasn't just for smoking it was meant for alot of things.
what has smoking got to do with OBEs?
okies as for shock therapy .. it has its uses, like most therapies, it depends on the persons reaction to the therapy.
like if you have cancer then kimotherapy (i dont know how to spell it) could make the situation better. but you might be someone who doesnt have a good reaction to it.
my dog had to have kimotherapy, she reacted well for a while, she was able to walk again, but then she reacted very very badly and had to be put out of her misery.
as for having OBEs through shock therapy, it could be possible. theres a chance its OBEing, theres a chance its just a hallucination, there is also a chance it has just screwed up the persons brain.
but they cant really prove that its an OBE can they? theres no way to prove OBEs is there, it all depends on beleif and personal experiance right?
im sorry if i have got any of this wrong
okies as for shock therapy .. it has its uses, like most therapies, it depends on the persons reaction to the therapy.
like if you have cancer then kimotherapy (i dont know how to spell it) could make the situation better. but you might be someone who doesnt have a good reaction to it.
my dog had to have kimotherapy, she reacted well for a while, she was able to walk again, but then she reacted very very badly and had to be put out of her misery.
as for having OBEs through shock therapy, it could be possible. theres a chance its OBEing, theres a chance its just a hallucination, there is also a chance it has just screwed up the persons brain.
but they cant really prove that its an OBE can they? theres no way to prove OBEs is there, it all depends on beleif and personal experiance right?
im sorry if i have got any of this wrong
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