Has anyone heard of it? OR know anything about it? I didnt know where to put this, so i hope its in the right place.
It just seems to me that its impossible to combine chrisitianity and wicca. I can see being a chrisitan mystic...or a christian that practices witchcraft....but chrisitianity and wicca are two very different religions. Maybe I just dont know enough about it, so exuse my ignorance on the topic...if anyone knows more about this subject can you help me out?
Thanks!
Christian Wicca
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poetry_princess
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Christian Wicca
Blessed BE all the Children of Gaia
There Exist only 3 beings in the world worthy of regognition: the priest, the soldier, the poet. To know, to kill, to create.
There Exist only 3 beings in the world worthy of regognition: the priest, the soldier, the poet. To know, to kill, to create.
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Dancing_Moon_Child
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Found on http://www.wicca.timerift.net
The Problem with Christian Wicca
I have nothing against the beliefs of Christo-Wiccan. However, their religion bears a dangerous name because it suggests that it is both Christian and Wiccan, when generally it is neither. Many will even insist that they are practicing members of both religions, and that claim has rather insurmountable theological problems.
First, when in doubt, check the dictionary:1
Christianity: the religion derived from Jesus Christ , based on the Bible as sacred scripture, and professed by Eastern, Roman Catholic, and Protestant bodies
Wicca: a religion influenced by pre-Christian beliefs and practices of western Europe that affirms the existence of supernatural power (as magic) and of both male and female deities who inhere in nature, and that emphasizes ritual observance of seasonal and life cycles
The Bible is rooted in the belief that there is a single god that worshippers may worship, a being commonly referred to today as God. There are no other acceptable deities. Wicca, on the other hand, involves the reverence of two deities minimally, a god and a goddess. These are core beliefs of both religions, and they are not compatible. If you worship God alongside a goddess, then you are breaking the commandment to worship only God and denying his existence as the only God. It's like saying "I'll listen to you, but only when I feel like it."
What about Mary? Mary isn't a goddess. Even if you believe that she was based on some older pagan goddess, the Christian Mary is not a goddess. She is a mortal. That is, in fact, part of the point about Mary: she is the mortal mother of a divine child. Worshipping her as a goddess is against Christianity. Worshipping her as a mortal is against Wicca, because the god and goddess of Wicca are complementary and equal. All-knowing, all-powerful God and mortal woman are in no way equal.
What about the Trinity? The Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) is problematic because even many Christians don't think it makes any sense. But even for those who believe in it, the Trinity is ultimately a single being, not three separate beings who happen to be part of some greater power. Moreover, the relationship of the Trinity is not like that of the Wiccan god and goddess. They are not complementary, and they are not gods themselves. You can't just take one theology and smack it down on top of another theology and say "close enough". Again, God commanded that his followers worship no other gods. That includes any smaller gods you may think he is comprised of. Christians never, for instance, worship Jesus (the Son) as a separate deity.
What about the Gnostic goddess Sophia? Gnosticism was branded a heresy by the Christian Church, so calling any Gnostic belief "Christian" is at best pushing definitions tremendously.
Even if you can somehow justify multiple gods in a Christian context, there is a lot more to both religions than just the issue of deities.
Satan - Satan has no place in Wicca. Satan is an embodiment of evil, and supernatural powers within a Wiccan content are intimately a part of nature. The acknowledgment of Satan within a Wiccan context would imply that some part of nature is inherently evil, which Wiccans deny.
Jesus as Savior - Christians believe that Jesus is necessary for salvation because we are by our nature tainted creatures, either because we are corporeal or because of Original Sin (or both), depending on your denomination. Wicca does not accept that we can be tainted because of our mere existence. Any taint that we might bear comes from our own choice of actions, not our nature.
Original Sin - Wicca does not believe that one is held accountable for another's transgressions. Original Sin transmits the guilt of Eve to all of her descendants.
Hell for unbelievers - Wicca's tolerance for other religions makes this a nonsensical concept. And if you don't believe nonbelievers are going to Hell, what exactly is Jesus saving you from?
Evangelizing - One of the duties of Christians is to "spread the Good Word". It's not only a long standing practice - it's Biblical. That doesn't mean force beliefs upon others, but it does mean actively preaching and/or seeking out potential converts, both of which are anathema to Wicca.
Now, you can almost certainly find members of both religions who do not espouse one or more of the above points (the Christian points or the Wiccan counterpoints). The problem is, if you keep making exceptions to the "rules" (for lack of a better term here), you end up with something completely different from the original point of reference.
There is NOTHING wrong with combining certain Christian and Wiccan beliefs into something new. However, if you're creating something new, why insist on labeling yourself something you no longer are? Christianity came from Judaism, but Christians don't claim that they're Jews. If you believe the Trinity to be three separate deities, that's your right. But that is NOT a Christian belief. By insisting on being both Christian and Wiccan, you've committed yourself to two incompatible theologies. Also, there's certainly nothing wrong with bringing certain Christian concepts into your Wiccan practice or certain Wiccan concepts into Christian practice. But neither of these situations results in a "Christian Wiccan".
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© Catherine Noble, 2002 - 2003   *    Member of the Timerift Network.
The Problem with Christian Wicca
I have nothing against the beliefs of Christo-Wiccan. However, their religion bears a dangerous name because it suggests that it is both Christian and Wiccan, when generally it is neither. Many will even insist that they are practicing members of both religions, and that claim has rather insurmountable theological problems.
First, when in doubt, check the dictionary:1
Christianity: the religion derived from Jesus Christ , based on the Bible as sacred scripture, and professed by Eastern, Roman Catholic, and Protestant bodies
Wicca: a religion influenced by pre-Christian beliefs and practices of western Europe that affirms the existence of supernatural power (as magic) and of both male and female deities who inhere in nature, and that emphasizes ritual observance of seasonal and life cycles
The Bible is rooted in the belief that there is a single god that worshippers may worship, a being commonly referred to today as God. There are no other acceptable deities. Wicca, on the other hand, involves the reverence of two deities minimally, a god and a goddess. These are core beliefs of both religions, and they are not compatible. If you worship God alongside a goddess, then you are breaking the commandment to worship only God and denying his existence as the only God. It's like saying "I'll listen to you, but only when I feel like it."
What about Mary? Mary isn't a goddess. Even if you believe that she was based on some older pagan goddess, the Christian Mary is not a goddess. She is a mortal. That is, in fact, part of the point about Mary: she is the mortal mother of a divine child. Worshipping her as a goddess is against Christianity. Worshipping her as a mortal is against Wicca, because the god and goddess of Wicca are complementary and equal. All-knowing, all-powerful God and mortal woman are in no way equal.
What about the Trinity? The Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) is problematic because even many Christians don't think it makes any sense. But even for those who believe in it, the Trinity is ultimately a single being, not three separate beings who happen to be part of some greater power. Moreover, the relationship of the Trinity is not like that of the Wiccan god and goddess. They are not complementary, and they are not gods themselves. You can't just take one theology and smack it down on top of another theology and say "close enough". Again, God commanded that his followers worship no other gods. That includes any smaller gods you may think he is comprised of. Christians never, for instance, worship Jesus (the Son) as a separate deity.
What about the Gnostic goddess Sophia? Gnosticism was branded a heresy by the Christian Church, so calling any Gnostic belief "Christian" is at best pushing definitions tremendously.
Even if you can somehow justify multiple gods in a Christian context, there is a lot more to both religions than just the issue of deities.
Satan - Satan has no place in Wicca. Satan is an embodiment of evil, and supernatural powers within a Wiccan content are intimately a part of nature. The acknowledgment of Satan within a Wiccan context would imply that some part of nature is inherently evil, which Wiccans deny.
Jesus as Savior - Christians believe that Jesus is necessary for salvation because we are by our nature tainted creatures, either because we are corporeal or because of Original Sin (or both), depending on your denomination. Wicca does not accept that we can be tainted because of our mere existence. Any taint that we might bear comes from our own choice of actions, not our nature.
Original Sin - Wicca does not believe that one is held accountable for another's transgressions. Original Sin transmits the guilt of Eve to all of her descendants.
Hell for unbelievers - Wicca's tolerance for other religions makes this a nonsensical concept. And if you don't believe nonbelievers are going to Hell, what exactly is Jesus saving you from?
Evangelizing - One of the duties of Christians is to "spread the Good Word". It's not only a long standing practice - it's Biblical. That doesn't mean force beliefs upon others, but it does mean actively preaching and/or seeking out potential converts, both of which are anathema to Wicca.
Now, you can almost certainly find members of both religions who do not espouse one or more of the above points (the Christian points or the Wiccan counterpoints). The problem is, if you keep making exceptions to the "rules" (for lack of a better term here), you end up with something completely different from the original point of reference.
There is NOTHING wrong with combining certain Christian and Wiccan beliefs into something new. However, if you're creating something new, why insist on labeling yourself something you no longer are? Christianity came from Judaism, but Christians don't claim that they're Jews. If you believe the Trinity to be three separate deities, that's your right. But that is NOT a Christian belief. By insisting on being both Christian and Wiccan, you've committed yourself to two incompatible theologies. Also, there's certainly nothing wrong with bringing certain Christian concepts into your Wiccan practice or certain Wiccan concepts into Christian practice. But neither of these situations results in a "Christian Wiccan".
------------------------------------------------------------------------
© Catherine Noble, 2002 - 2003   *    Member of the Timerift Network.
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GenevieveDawn
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Wow, that was great information. I personally believe that you can be a Christian and still practice magic, do spells, use herbs, stones, etc. Unless you invoke a deity or something like that you are just using your own energy or drawing it from nature. I think that invoking would be something that yeah, would go against christianity. Anyway, I won't say much more because I know this is a sensitive topic to a lot of people. Don't want to open a can of worms...
...magic consists of removing the limitations from what we think are the earthly and spiritual laws that bind or compel us. We can be anything because we are ALL. - Mary Greer
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poetry_princess
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sweeet. thanks for the info...it clears things up a little bit...but questions still come to mind. it seems to me that a better name for it would be christian witchcraft or something....assuming you dont think of practicing witchcraft a religion.
I have a friend that is wiccan....and uses the trinity Father , Son, Holy Ghost of the Christian pantheon...but he considers himself wiccan. Which makes sense to me...because he doesnt claim to be both.
I have a friend that is wiccan....and uses the trinity Father , Son, Holy Ghost of the Christian pantheon...but he considers himself wiccan. Which makes sense to me...because he doesnt claim to be both.
Blessed BE all the Children of Gaia
There Exist only 3 beings in the world worthy of regognition: the priest, the soldier, the poet. To know, to kill, to create.
There Exist only 3 beings in the world worthy of regognition: the priest, the soldier, the poet. To know, to kill, to create.
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Grendel
It is the same inherent problem the christo-wicca that affects celtic-christianity aswell, though the line is far more clear in terms of celtic-christians.
The basic thing that makes and links any of the christian denominations is the messiah figure, which can be assimilated from any religion. From the Graeco-Romans it was Pan. From the celtic-christians it is a Druidic Saviour.
The basic thing that makes and links any of the christian denominations is the messiah figure, which can be assimilated from any religion. From the Graeco-Romans it was Pan. From the celtic-christians it is a Druidic Saviour.
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Cassie
I think it depends on what meaning you attach to Christianity...
the first Christians were just followers of Jesus of Nazareth, who spent their lives studying his teachings and trying to emulate him. (Much like the early followers of Buddha)... Those who follow Buddha = Buddhists, those who follow Christ = Christians (the -ian is a a greek diminutive according to what I've been taught).
I admire Jesus in the same way I admire Buddha... There is no doubt as far as I'm concerned that both existed and did extraordinary things.
Now "Christian" as a follower or imitator of Jesus and "Christian" as a typical religious practitioner are unfortunately two different things. (I would say for the most part that any person who practices common Christianity is doing very little that is Christ-like to begin with... )
I don't know that a person could truly subscribe to both religious philosphies as they seem to contradict each other in both ways, but a person can certainly admire and try to emulate Christ and still be a witch or wiccan.... but they wouldn't really be a practicing christian.
I'm probably talking in circles, I'm exhausted. PHEW!!
the first Christians were just followers of Jesus of Nazareth, who spent their lives studying his teachings and trying to emulate him. (Much like the early followers of Buddha)... Those who follow Buddha = Buddhists, those who follow Christ = Christians (the -ian is a a greek diminutive according to what I've been taught).
I admire Jesus in the same way I admire Buddha... There is no doubt as far as I'm concerned that both existed and did extraordinary things.
Now "Christian" as a follower or imitator of Jesus and "Christian" as a typical religious practitioner are unfortunately two different things. (I would say for the most part that any person who practices common Christianity is doing very little that is Christ-like to begin with... )
I don't know that a person could truly subscribe to both religious philosphies as they seem to contradict each other in both ways, but a person can certainly admire and try to emulate Christ and still be a witch or wiccan.... but they wouldn't really be a practicing christian.
I'm probably talking in circles, I'm exhausted. PHEW!!
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Dubh Barin
Christrian-Wiccan sounds really odd idea. who is going around proclaiming such. would love to hear from you.. and your beliefs are what?!!
It seems like these people are wanting their cake and eat it too.. doesn't work both ways, christianity, last time I checked was not happy with magic and called it the devil's work. I am totally confused on this one, aren't the chrisitan's the ones who burned harry potter books because of magic? I don't remember any chrisitan wiccans standing up for this one, infact, I have never heard of or meet a christo-wiccan??have you??.. I myself being wiccan would not be happy with a chrisitan playing with something they cannot believe in and calling it fun..
It seems like these people are wanting their cake and eat it too.. doesn't work both ways, christianity, last time I checked was not happy with magic and called it the devil's work. I am totally confused on this one, aren't the chrisitan's the ones who burned harry potter books because of magic? I don't remember any chrisitan wiccans standing up for this one, infact, I have never heard of or meet a christo-wiccan??have you??.. I myself being wiccan would not be happy with a chrisitan playing with something they cannot believe in and calling it fun..
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dread_pirate_steele
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finally, and realized that they arent bad after all and teach good morals ect... -
willow02
wiccans & christians
Keep in mind, though, different types of christian churches have different beliefs about the translation of the Bible. Some strict, and some kind of linient. So you can't put people who consider themselves Wicca-Christians in one BIG group of folks who believe in just Christianity. It's totally different. I believe there's alot of things I'll never know. (At least until this body's gone). If folks keep an open mind about it, I'm sure that they'll understand that Wiccan-Christians are just like almost every other "new" religion. It's not a "New" religion, maybe just a new translation or a new understanding. 
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dread_pirate_steele
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willow02
Yeah, I wish someone could come to me and say "I know how things began, who's in charge, and we're we'll be going when we're dead." The most I've ever gotten is "I believe." So until someone tells me differently, I guess I'm in one of those weird groups of people/religions without a name. But hey, I'm ok with that. As long as I question things, I learn.
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dread_pirate_steele
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Dubh Barin
I totally agree with you.. it seems everyone is too polite or politically correct because they are afraid that the christians with burn them. Witch some of these christo-wiccans need to explain. They support a religon that used to like to burn people for being witches, and now it is like the thing to be so you can have your cake and eat it too idea.
Well, I don't know much about this new wanna-bee religion but it sounds really dumb to me. Both christianity and wiccans are totally different ideas all together. I have yet to figure out why christians celebrate christmas with trees, and easter with eggs, since neither are related to what they are celebrating. That was based on pagen celebrations..... but there is always those type of people out there that will stand up and scream, "I am this or I am that!, just to fit in until the new fad comes along, like Buddism and Yoga classes with their morning caffe lattes... or some crap like that..
They just don't make sense.. If you are christo-wiccan, tell me what is your views on religon and god, devil and jesus, jews..etc.. so maybe I can understand.. cuz I am throughly confused....
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dread_pirate_steele
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i think the holidays are meant to remember Christian events in fun ways. how else would you recognize say..Jesus' birth. instead of saying "today is Jesus birthday" much like you would say "its my moms birthday"
it really highlights it the way people do it, christmas trees and all. of course you dont have to be a christian to celebrate the holidays!
it really highlights it the way people do it, christmas trees and all. of course you dont have to be a christian to celebrate the holidays!
-Lee
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