Is the God & Goddess the Source of Suffering?

[Leo Arnulf]

In a book I'm reading about Wicca it says that the God and Goddess is the source of our pain, suffering, etc. but we should call into them to help them help us remove it. Isn't that a little contradictory? We ask the God and Goddess to remove them self from us? I'm confused...

What would they want me to do during that time?

[Siona]

It's actually an idea that's found quite frequently in a lot of ancient pagan religions. Artemis and Apollon are two examples, they were thought to bring sudden illness and death to girls and boys respectively, but at the same time were also seen as protectors of girls and boys. (For Artemis it's the same with animals, she is both hunter and protector of wild animals. She is also a virgin goddess who helps in childbirth... contradictory aspects were very common all around.) Similar ideas were found in ancient Egypt, Sekhmet could bring disease and disaster, but was also petitioned to keep them away, and she even became a patron of doctors and surgeons because of it.

The thinking was that the deities who could bring these negative things could also be petitioned to not bring them, to keep them away. The opposite is true as well, deities who could bring good things could be petitioned to keep the bad again, since again, it was thought that they controlled the whole area - both good and bad. Like a deity would control weather... storms and beneficial rains, they brought both, and we could ask them to bring the one that is needed.

[AdastraJunction]

Yin and Yang, Right and Wrong, what is pleasure without pain. Everything has to have it's balance... even the gods and goddesses.

[Leo Arnulf]

Thanks

[SnowCat]

Without Loki, and the chaos that has been in my life, I would have missed out on many lessons.

Snow

[Xiao Rong]

Hi Leo! In my spirituality, I see the Divine as being comprised of everything in the universe, which includes pain and suffering. Almost every aspect of the Divine has both a light side and a dark side. Take the Triple Goddess, for instance. We typically think of the Triple Goddess as being a beautiful, innocent, happy Maiden, a fertile, nurturing, loving Mother, and a wise, knowledgeable Crone. Yet each of the Triple Goddess's faces has a dark side. The Maiden can also be a warrior and a killer; the Mother can kill to protect her young, or perhaps devour them. The Crone's dark side is probably best known in our culture as the cackling evil witch.

However, the important thing to know about the dark side is that dark does not necessarily mean evil. Sometimes you need the Warrior Maiden, or the Devouring Mother. Similarly, pain and suffering is part of the God and Goddess, but it's not always bad. Sometimes to make a radical transformation or change, you will be uncomfortable and even suffer. You grieve and you are hurt when you lose someone, but only because you had the joy of loving them. And some things like death are simply immutable and unavoidable. I am not condoning needless suffering or pain, but I do believe that pain and suffering are a part of our world and also part of the God and Goddess. It's normal to want to minimize suffering, but we have to recognize that there is only so much that we can do, or even the God and Goddess can do.

[Kat]

but what about not existing evil at wicca? that evil thing reminds me of some other religions who claim whoever choses not to follow them is a sinner and a devil's follower.

[Badgerstate]

The key word here is, "balance". The Gods can be a source of suffering, as well as they can be a source of relief. As with all things, the universe seeks to achieve balance.

[Xiao Rong]

but what about not existing evil at wicca? that evil thing reminds me of some other religions who claim whoever choses not to follow them is a sinner and a devil's follower.

I don't think I follow you, Kat. Can you clarify?

[Kat]

I thought there was no evil in wicca. that's what I meant Xiao.

[Xiao Rong]

I don't think there's "evil" in the sense of an independent force that stands in opposition to good, like the Devil is. I might characterize some individual people who are deliberately hurtful as "evil", perhaps, but I feel like that's different from the kind of evil that's commonly associated with Christianity, the Devil, hell, etc.

[Chalice]

They are the problem and the solution. The alpha and Omega.

The Goddess is the source of all, including the God her Lover/Son.

I've noticed that suffering decreases the more we align with the Goddess. Healing energies, spiritual peace and acceptance all come from her.

And ultimately Death is a final end to current suffering. Which is terrible, but for some people with serious physical issues, death is a release.

With existence comes pain. For some reason, I really wish we lived without pain, but then what would we be?

[Seraphin]

Personally, since I mainly work with Deific Daemons such as Kali, Resheph, Ketev, Dever and tricksters such as Eleggua and Eris, some Orisha Gbigbona of Yoruba and other Chthonic Adversaries, I believe that my Deities have everything to do with everything. Even the slightest afflictions or the irksome vexations which often mar my consciousness and beset me every day are all coming from Them.

To me, sufferings can be divided into two categories: big, dramatic challenges and routine, unsensational tests.
All sort of sufferings, great or small, are evaluations, tests and challenges given by these Deific Daemons and Adversaries to catalyze my potential. The catalyst is painful, difficult and sometimes, totally insane rather than pleasurable for several reasons. First, personally, I usually prefer not to be deeply effected by pleasure. Second, the law of karma, the law of compensation and the law of justice by which I believe my Deities rule my world demands that I live with the consequences of my preferences, decisions and choices. There are times that my ego contest this particular belief of mine but in the end of the day, I always realize that my sufferings are all result of my own bad choices, in this or previous lifetimes.

Some people say that sufferings are divine punishment -- I don't agree. Suffering for me are educational. I don't believe my Deities indulge in egocentric and anthromorphic punishment. In humanistic way of punishment, there's usually a large element of, "You did something wrong, therefore you deserve to experience this." In Divine ways of testing or evaluation, my belief is that the approach is always, "You did something wrong, therefore you must learn and grow to be a greater being and will not repeat such actions." It doesn't sound like a punishment, does it?

The sufferings also serve as external stimuli to move us forward. Sometimes bankruptcy moves a person forward spiritually. Sometimes sickness and illness moves a person forward. These kinds of suffering are opportunities given by our Deities and Highest Ideals to shake oneself out of behaviors that have become second nature.