How, Then, is a New God Born?

[HopefulChild]

I've never seen such a diverse collection of deities being discussed in one place.
Honestly, it is thrilling.
For whatever reason it makes me think of when I was younger and playing Dungeons and Dragons.
Please don't be insulted by that. It is a compliment. A nerd compliment.

Which brings me to this topic.

Everyone has their own pantheon or specific god and goddess and so on.

I'm sure anyone who strongly identifies with a particular deity knows their origin story or myth or mythos.

Neil Gaiman's writing and comics, have gone a long way to pointing out that we don't really consider the possibility that new gods are being born.
We look at gods and we think antiquity.

A new religion has literally spring up in the world since the 1970's and grown so fast that it has forced a huge portion of the world to recognize it just because of the volume of followers. I am talking about scientology of course. And only because I'm just barely familiar with some root mechanics for dyanetics and the systemology of the practice.
I don't really know anything about if there is a deity attached to their particular practice or not. I've read amusing stories about space frogs and volcanoes...but nothing I would say is credible. They tend to horde their actual beliefs inside the "pay to play" system, so I'll obviously never get close to it.

But it still begs the question in my opinion. Scientology is truly a brand new religion. Does it have deity?
And if so, how do you imagine a new deity is born?

I'm keen to hear any opinions or ideas about this.

[Firebird]

I can't remember..
I almost got sucked into this cult in the late 70's. They have you fill out a questioner, then grill you. ..and ask if don't you want to become "clear?" They wanted a few hundred dollars to sign up. I was with my then boyfriend at the time. He went for it...I did not. He was snared by this group...and away he went. I do not know what ever became of him but he shunned his family who loved him very much. They were Catholic, and devistated by the loss of him.
But back to the question...maybe a little green man? I'm not sure that they believe in deity.
Bb, Firebird

[Xiao Rong]

Yes, I absolutely believe that new deities can and do come into existence. This is why I think it's a mistake to focus too much on historicity, and trying to make new deities and spirits we come into contact with "fit" within the mold of historical gods and goddesses, since we might lose sight of the fact that new deities can bring wholly new insights and blessings in our modern lives.

I am still not 100% clear on the nature of deities -- if they're "separate, literal" beings, thoughtforms, expressions of archetypes, or just a part of our psyche -- but it does not seem so far-fetched to me that one day, archaeologists will see that we told stories of Batman, Wonder Woman, Iron Man, etc., wore their symbols, spoke of them with reverence ... and then assume that they must be our deities. And then future Pagans will read the stories of our superhero deities and search for meaning in them too!

[Becks]

Love the writings of Gaiman.

I do think gods can be created, and I do feel that there is a god of consumerism. Just look at what our society has become. How powerful is that? People may not be conscious of it, but they do worship it so to speak.

I'm not sure if gods pre-exist human thought in terms of being formless energy; that is then connected to constructs of archetypes again and again or what.

I think thought forms have a lot to do with that....people believe and think about something over and over again and eventually these thoughts coalesce into something with substance.

I'm not sure how to reconcile that with thoughts of a creator born not of human thought though....that belief was introduced to me very young in a few cosmologies.

[Seraphin]

I also believe Deities aren't only summoned by human worship, devotion and faith, but actually born by them. I believe that every collection of human thoughts and beliefs creates a Deity who could either advocate for the humans in otherworlds or prosecute humans.

It follows that some new born Deities reflect the nature of the worship, devotion or faith from which They are spawned. Deities born of lighthearted and devoted worship are vibrant and vigorous. Deities created by rote worship are lusterless and lethargic. The condition of these Deities automatically broadcasts the nature of our belief, faith and worship.

I also believe these Deities that created by human worship and mere faith accompany Their devoted ones through their life and, by Their very presence, broadcast their deeds.

[HopefulChild]

I like the "self created" stories. Like that of Atum. Amun, Nu, Kuk, Huh. It's one of the reasons I have the Lotus Ankh as my personal talisman and I technically don't worship the Goddess. I worship the male aspect of nature...cause, I'm a guy. My wife is my balance and I am of balance to her.

So many of the creation stories share big similar elements. An infinite sea from which something new springs forth. A giant being torn apart so that new things can crawl out of the old.

There is a theme that at one point there was nothing. Or at least nothing useful. In almost all cases some form of chaos or entropy chooses to change that. Whatever the factor is that starts the process is irrelevant. Change, begets change. Even in physics this is true.
Once that happens almost all of the stories create a pantheon of gods, or one creator god confronts his or her own limitations and makes a host of entities to exist in concert.

Simplifying, the majority of it actually fits directly into my endless universe model where consciousness can form itself from the energies and components available outside this plane of existence.
It's not much a stretch at the same time to consider that if a "god" form had self created, and had learned how to stand on the fence between this plane and another plane, that the energy of individuals who chose to live a human or animal life, could if they wanted to, merge with the god head when their energy was released from this version of existence.

I feel strongly that there is a certain amount of authenticity of the idea that some people choose to fuse with the gods and add to the sum. Which makes the comments from Seraphin very intriguing to me. Though I admit a portion of that leaves me with a "chicken or egg" feeling. This is probably much closer to the egregores that you and imperious touched on in another thread.

If the energy we are while living can exert influence on "gods" and they in turn can exert influence on us, it's a pretty good indication that balance is again be a consistent standard being applied across all of existence. It doesn't interfere with science and science doesn't limit it's potential. It would literally...just be an iteration of thermodynamics with the entropy factor seeking equilibrium inside a closed system.

That then begs the consideration of how many people walked this earth in human form who were strong enough of spirit and will that when their energy left this plane, they themselves simply chose to become a god on their own?

How does that strike any of you?

[Becks]

Single souls that can transform into gods? Interesting.

I wouldn't think it would be many, but I can think of a few stories off the top of my head......Siddhartha Gautama maybe?
People could argue that of Jesus of Nazareth....then again some people say he didn't exist. Ganesha was said to be human first.

Buddha is not a god per se.....but I suppose you could argue that he is. Some of these stories...well it's hard to know what the actual origin is.

It's making me consider the question: What makes a god? Can a god exist apart from human acknowledgement? It's the chicken egg thing again..... How many unnamed gods exist? Because we don't know the name of a god...or it is not known to us does it exist? Yes. I think it does. People worship gods that I know nothing of. While I may not be personally aware of that particular God...it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It exists without my conscious knowing...do we think people have to acknowledge a god for it to exist? I'm going to have to think on that one and educate myself a bit more. I think as humans we have an inflated sense of ourselves. There were balances and processes long before we were a bud on the tree of evolution. Mother Nature...the divine mother....was she a being before we placed that construct on her? Did we need to do that as humans? Did we need to personify/deify to simply to impose meaning and place a handle that we could hold on to? Just because nature was something that was ultimately larger than we could grasp? As scientists we get closer, but there is always more to know.

I too find that it makes sense to consider that there may be an option for the soul to fuse with the godhead....or go back into nature or fuse with another living thing....that makes me think about the "will" thread. Whatever our will is...it is certainly that part of the self that directs our energy and sets our trajectory for this life and after. If that is so, then perhaps our divine will is both directed and forged in the infinite choices and way we direct our life source during our time on this plane. It's that "HGA higher consciousness" stuff that I find very intriguing.

[Seraphin]

I believe a perfected, ascended, enlightened soul have an option to fuse with the godhead and be a Deity in its own right. As I said in my previous post from other thread, they could become guide, ascended master, or something else. And that includes being a God or a Goddess.

Viewed from the point of view of man's service to the nature and otherwords and other realms, I believe I as man have five level of souls which may be described as five ascending levels of consciousness or awareness of, and communion with, nature, the spirit and the Divine. Please be aware that this is just my opinion and my personal belief which is may be complicated with your own belief.

In Eastern Esoteric teachings and Zoharistic tradition, it is believed that when a person is born, he is given the first level of soul or the breath of life from the physical word, the lowest world, representing the greatest concealment of nature and spirit. The work or service associated with the first level is acknowledgment of existence and sentience of nature and spirits, particularly in reference to building a relationship with them and communing.

If, through his work and service, he makes himself worthy, his soul will ascend on the second level. With greater effort, he can earn the revelation of the third. I personally believe perfect love and perfect trust of forces and spirits are aroused by contemplating the divine energy which forms and maintains the otherworlds, and by tremendously working with spiritual beings which inhabit the worlds. Although the intellect may be used extensively on this particular stage, nevertheless, the primary focus of the intellect here is contemplation in order to arouse the emotions.

If he purifies himself greatly, he may be able to attain the third level. Here our self can truly analyze, decipher and understand the underlying principles abstracted from the categories of thought imposed upon us by the basic human mind and experience. One of the signs that a person is on this level of consciousness is that when the mind is clearly focused on his own personal theology, cosmology and science. Some psychic abilities are manifesting. Subsequently, due to the abundance of illumination one experiences at this level, the emotions of trust and love are automatically aroused.

Further exploration could transcend him to another level which the souls' knowldege is not limited or defined by the finite universe. Thus the soul merges into a state of complete and total Oneness. There is no self-seeking and no self-identity outside of the divine self or godhead.

And then the fifth level which some call -- the God consciousness, or the HGA higher consciousness, the Buddha or awakened state or the the level of Adam Kadmon in Kabbalah. Jesus of Nazareth, Siddharta Gautamma, and other humans beings who are now worshipped by many had already attained this level of consciousness. This is the essence of the soul which is naturally and immutable bound to the spiritual and divine realm.

[OwDavid]

Interesting topic... I'll keep around here.

[HopefulChild]

You've seen me express this more than once now, Seraphin, so you should understand this is in no way me casting aspersions on the systems you integrate. It's just me thinking out loud.

I continue to dislike concepts involving systems built around a premise that we are born flawed or "basic", and then have to undergo a cleansing or purification in order to reach some advanced level of existence.

I don't maintain a concept that my action or inaction is tallied by the universe because on scale my individual decisions and actions are so minuscule. How does my decision to not admit to a cashier that she gave me too much change back, work in concert or conflict with an asteroid in another galaxy on the other side of the universe crashing into a planet of protolife and annihilating billions of life forms?

I used to live inside a system like that. Because that is how I was trained. That is the information that was available. All it did was cripple my mind and plague me with self doubt, guilt, and concepts put on my shoulders that benefited those who chose to ignore those concepts from the get go.

It carries the same outlandish standard as a Human, sitting at the edge of the ocean with a clipboard and keeping meticulous notes about one individual plankton, how it interacted with it's peers, what it did or did not do in every situation, and ultimately what that plankton should have learned from it's time as a plankton so it can move on and be rewarded, or sent back to plankton life to try harder. If you can't concede the probability that humans are like plankton in the scope and scale of the universe at large then I suggest you are still toiling inside a childlike frame work of what the universe actually is.

These concepts were developed into systems by people to whom "the universe" was more accurately translated as "this individual biosphere"...

These concepts also lead to a direct self evaluation and affliction of "worthyness". A reasonable caring person will always ask themselves, "am I worthy of this"...depending on the training they have received in life and the training and teaching of the individuals who trained them, this can result in a continuous standard of "unworthyness"...
How does that work? How is that balanced? How does that apply toward a goal of equilibrium in a universe where there are a hundred million stars in our galaxy and a hundred trillion galaxies.

The reality of how vast the universe is, wasn't under consideration in any way.

There is truth in esoteric and antique systems of spirituality but only in the abstract. In the rudimentary considerations of localized endeavor. None of the occult systems humans have practiced, honed, and written down to pass on, scale up to systems larger than our own planet. Let alone the greater expanse of a single solar system, and then a quadrant of universal space. We can't even be certain if physics as we understand it, is 100% from one solar system to another because we haven't even been able to measure a gravity standard for another star in another solar system in our own milky way, let alone a star at the core of another solar system, in the next closest galaxy.

We can and do make assumptions, but in my opinion esoteric systems is one of those subjects where we have the freedom to stop making assumptions and work purely with concepts. And it never occured to our predecessors to work on a concept that scales up to universal order, because they were working with a much more limited concept of universe than we are.

Should people work on their own to be the best they can be. Absolutely!

But advancing stages of improvement still smacks of a pyramid scheme in any form.

[SnowCat]

LDS teaches that humans become gods. I don't know about any others.

Snow

[Kassandra]

.

Neil Gaiman's writing and comics, have gone a long way to pointing out that we don't really consider the possibility that new gods are being born...We look at gods and we think antiquity...how do you imagine a new deity is born? I'm keen to hear any opinions or ideas about this.

Hmm. My first thought when reading this was we needn't go to churches, temples or groves to find people worshipping their new gods. I would say a god is born when someone wholeheartedly devotes their allegiance in something or someone outside of themselves, in a kind of "cult of personality" kind of way. From that perspective, new gods are born all day, every day. One of the names that might describe this class of worshippers might be a....



Fan

Merriam-Webster, the Oxford dictionary and other sources define it as a shortened version of the word fanatic. The word first became popular in reference to baseball enthusiasts. Fanatic itself, introduced into English around 1550, means "marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion." It comes from the Modern Latin fanaticus, meaning "insanely but divinely inspired." The word originally pertained to a temple or sacred place [Latin fanum, poetic English fane]. The modern sense of "extremely zealous" dates from around 1647; the use of fanatic as a noun dates from 1650).

fans.jpg (14.76 KiB) Viewed 1831 times

The look of obedience. When a singer tells an audience to repeatedly
say something, or make some gesture with their bodies, they say and
do it. Words to songs are as chanted spells, a kind of witchcraft, really.
Fans give attention, money and even their bodies to their chosen gods.

Photo source: wort.lu/en/culture/rockhal-music-resources-department-making-music-and-keeping-the-industry-alive-in-luxembourg-54fd7d610c88b46a8ce55060


Conversion and Degree of Zealousness

Fans usually have a strong enough interest that some changes in their lifestyles are made to accommodate devotion to the focal object. Fans have a desire for external involvement – they are motivated to demonstrate their involvement with the area of interest through certain behaviors (attending conventions, posting online, displaying team banners outside their homes, etc.). Fans often have a "wish to acquire" material objects related to the area of interest, such as a baseball hit by a famous slugger or a used guitar pick from their musical hero.



Fellowshipping

As well, some fans have a desire for social interaction with other fans. This again may take many forms, from casual conversation, e-mail, chat rooms, and electronic mailing lists to regular face-to-face meetings such as fan club meetings and organized conventions.

At sports bars, sports fans will gather together, often while consuming food and alcoholic beverages, with the purpose of following a particular sporting event on television as a group. This can create the sense of unity in a sports bar as all cheers and boos will appear to be synchronized due to similar feelings and reactions by nearly all fans at the fortunes and misfortunes of the favored team or athlete.

Often sports fans will invite other fans of relatively similar rooting intensity over to their house to experience a sporting event together so that all involved can voice pleasure or displeasure to their heart's content and increase shared bonds in the process. It is becoming common for this type of bonding to take place over sports-related social networks like eFans.

The cult of personality in action. If he were just a guy in Starbuck's getting a cup
of coffee, would he get this kind of attention? How do we make the leap from, on
the one hand, merely enjoying a person's talent (acting, singing, sport-playing, etc.),
to irrationally worshipping the particular person? We don't know how these people
act in real life, yet we still manage to supposedly "love" and "adore" them?
Photo source: justjared.com/photo-gallery/2052911/jude-law-screaming-fans-13/fullsize/




Parishoners and Priests

Fangirls are often portrayed as teenagers obsessed with something to a frightening degree. The term is often used in a demeaning, derogatory fashion to describe the fans that give “normal” fans a bad name. In fact, the term "fangirling" is used to describe anyone who obsessively follows a certain fandom to the point where it interferes with their daily lives. Such a trend of ‘authentic’ versus ‘inauthentic’ fan is common within fan communities, and is particularly pertinent to gender discrimination and misogynistic ideals. However, on the other hand of the spectrum, some so-called "fangirls" have embraced the title, considering it a compliment rater than a derogatory term.

Fanboys are frequently portrayed as “angry nerds”, overly aggressive, derogatory, and protective of the object of their obsession. In regards to chosen fandoms, they are typically associated with comic books, video games, science fiction movies or television series, or technology (such as computer or smartphone brands). An exception to this portrayal is the sports fan, who is expected to be overtly sexual, and aggressive. This portrayal is particularly dominant within the sports arena, which provides a legitimate site for men to act in hyper-masculinized ways.


Then, there are the Chosen Ones, those who go that extra mile. For example, in the sci-fi cult world, an Actifan is a fan involved in "fanac" (fan activity), such as producing a fanzine or running a convention. The opposite is a Passifan, who enjoys the subject of the fandom and is not directly involved in the fandom.

But a Big Name Fan (BNF) is a fan who has become well-known within a fandom for their contributions of various sorts, such as heading of a major blog or contributing to the franchise itself. They may enjoy a celebrity status of their own.




"I Exploit You, Still You Love Me"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FKv5QLa8q8
I will never understand the (Terran) human need to hand our power away, as though we'd be amiss not to.
Is it organic? Is it behaviorally-conditioned? Where's it come from? It's my understanding that others of the
Star Nations would desire to see us grow up and out of this dangerous characteristic. We can't reasonably
expect anyone from other worlds to "rescue" our race from our self-destructiveness. We should at least try
to do that ourselves. And I think extinguishing our innate, slave-like tendency to worship any and every
thing outside of ourselves would be a great place to start.

Concert-goers for the band, Oasis (and just who the heck are they, anyway?)






Article adapted from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_(person)






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[Lady Poppet]

Perhaps, its that our thoughts produce energies and our devotions elevates those energies to "godship" and sentience. But that gods can also create other gods through procreation, like the Hellenics and Kemetics. Its probably all of the above. Maybe, less mortals are being elevated because social constructs have constricted the practice of polytheistic practices.