What preachers hide from Christians

[[cherokeewind]]

Like me, many of us either came from a Christian background or are exposed to it in some way. I'm continually amazed at what was hidden from church members, since most are Bible illiterates, that wasn't a difficult task.

Here is just one example, the ALTER OF INCENSE OR ALTER OF SWEET INCENSE, established for ceremonies at the time Moses gave the 10 commandments. The High Priest had a commandment to keep also.

"THOU SHALT BURN INCENSE UPON THE ALTER OF INCENSE, EVERY MORNING AND EVENING. THIS SHALT BE DONE THROUGHOUT ALL GENERATIONS."

Note the poles which are called staves made of Shittim-wood, overlaid with gold. Some depictions are incorrect and show the rings for staves on 4 corners. Biblical specifications clearly say 2 rings not 4. This places the horns at the East, South, West, and North directions. The Tabernacle was aligned to the magnetic North.



My finger is pointing to a photo I snapped with a digital camera. this is from a textbook widely used by preacher schools we call seminaries, in the 1980's-90's. The book is a reprint from one published in London, England 1851. Title is "The Holy Vessels And Furniture Of The Tabernacle" by Henry Soltau.

The incense was to be a blend of sweet smelling spices and herbs after the art of the apothecary. This is something they learned while in Egypt. In fact, the Hebrews became a nation in Egypt. The 12 Tribes of Israel came from Joseph and his brothers.

Horns since ancient times symbolize the powers of the 4 directions.

[Wolf*]

May I ask where this accually is in the bible?

[[cherokeewind]]

Wolf, there is so much in there, I was just wanting to see whether the 4 directions are used just as in other religions. As looking for this reference, the location in the Bible for you...spotted another thing in the book. The use of animals. It really caught my attention the RED DYED RAM'S SKINS. There you have the use of colors.

I went to a search engine that contains the entire Bible, in all the different translations. I don't want to type all that out, make it easy, copy and paste.
Here is the reference:

Exodus 30: 1-8

1And thou shalt make an altar to burn incense upon: of shittim wood shalt thou make it. 2A cubit shall be the length thereof, and a cubit the breadth thereof; foursquare shall it be: and two cubits shall be the height thereof: the horns thereof shall be of the same. 3And thou shalt overlay it with pure gold, the top thereof, and the sides thereof round about, and the horns thereof; and thou shalt make unto it a crown of gold round about. 4And two golden rings shalt thou make to it under the crown of it, by the two corners thereof, upon the two sides of it shalt thou make it; and they shall be for places for the staves to bear it withal. 5And thou shalt make the staves of shittim wood, and overlay them with gold. 6And thou shalt put it before the veil that is by the ark of the testimony, before the mercy seat that is over the testimony, where I will meet with thee. 7And Aaron shall burn thereon sweet incense every morning: when he dresseth the lamps, he shall burn incense upon it. 8And when Aaron lighteth the lamps at even, he shall burn incense upon it, a perpetual incense before the LORD throughout your generations.

Exodus 30: 34-38
34And the LORD said unto Moses, Take unto thee sweet spices, stacte, and onycha, and galbanum; these sweet spices with pure frankincense: of each shall there be a like weight: 35and thou shalt make it a perfume, a confection after the art of the apothecary, tempered together, pure and holy: 36and thou shalt beat some of it very small, and put of it before the testimony in the tabernacle of the congregation, where I will meet with thee: it shall be unto you most holy. 37And as for the perfume which thou shalt make, ye shall not make to yourselves according to the composition thereof: it shall be unto thee holy for the LORD. 38Whosoever shall make like unto that, to smell thereto, shall even be cut off from his people.

It mentions Candlestick here, this is before candles got invented.


These are Almond tree design with the 7th or center lamp has the 4 directions represented. The flowers, buds, and branches. The 12 tribes all cut branches from the sacred tree, to see who would be High Priest. A Rod or power stick, cut from a brance was placed on the alter. The one power stick which stayed alive is how they chose a High Priest. Aaron's stayed alive and budded. Wiccans call them a staff.

[Wolf*]

Sorry to tell you, but preachers aren't really trying to hide it, more-so its that they don't particularly care. You see, Exodus is very Old Testament, so to christians, it doesn't matter.

When Jesus was crucified and died, the rules changed and the OT became more or less obsolete. All ten commandments aren't even used any more because Christians don't keep the "Sabbath Day" holy. So basically when the new testament came about, it made the OT not much more than a history book on how the new laws came about.

Again, not hidden, just simply not needed.

[Exilus]

Not totally true wolf.


in the bible Jesus tells his disiples i follow the laws of moses and so shall you. Luke 24:44–49


The old testament is not obsolete as they are the rules of the father, while the new testament are to be the rules of the son. It is a turning away from the bible in humanity itself that has made the sabath day not seem holy any longer.

But as far as christians go that is why the 7th day is sunday the last day of the week and the day they go to church.

As for the preachers not using incence and so forth, The catholics still use most of their old rituals, including the burning of incence. Christian is as much a magical religion as most of us are, the only difference is they use the term magic to seperate themselves from the rest, in an attempt to make thier religion better. (Look at us we don't practice magic because we are the one true gods children.) Its a form of misdirection. in the past preists would use the fact that most of the illiterate populus couldn't read the book for themselves and therefore could not interpret the bible other than what they stated.

Ok im not gonna rant on for hours like i normally do i promise, but had to correct that one thing.

[Sercee]

Wolf, I've run into quite a few preachers that do hide that stuff. The problem lies in how they hide it. The fundamentalists seem to have a tendency to believe in the aspects of the bible that they WANT to believe. Any contradictions or things that don't fall in their narrow scope of thought are simply wrong or misinterpreted or just don't exist. So when they're preaching their religion they aren't actively hiding the information so much as ignoring it in favor of what they think is the correct information. It's self deception.

[Eretik]

The priests in the temple wore tabards specified to a certain design using particular colours and with each of the 12 tribes 'stones' upon them.Each tribe had a designated jewel or mineral as a representation of their group. I have a link somewhere for this and other related info.If I find it,I 'll put it up. It is interesting. Some Christians do hide or try to hide this kind of information, as they do not wish it to be known that the origins of Christianity are in Judaism and that those origins themselves are memories of an earlier Pagan faith. This[ as we all know] can be researched and proven without much effort,really,but there seems to be a wall of blindness that you can't cross with these people,despite all attempts at reasonable deduction/argument. I hit a site the other day,by accident,which is a spectacular example of this. Fundies drive me nuts!!!!lol.

[[ForestWitch]]

Oh boy, if only Christians thought the Old Testament didn't matter. Sadly, many of them focus on certain passages in the Old Testament far more than they do on Christ's own words!

The tradition of Sunday worship started with the early Roman church and was probably largely influenced by pagan sun-worshipping Romans at the time. (Remember, very little of Christianity is original; nearly all of it was "borrowed" from pagan practices.) Constantine had outlawed work on Sunday so perhaps it was just a matter of convenience. In any case, Christians do not consider Sunday to be the 7th day - the theological justification for Sunday worship is a calculation that Christ was resurrected on the 1st day of the week. Not all Christians worship on Sunday, either: Seventh Day Adventists, for example, still hold to Saturday worship.

I don't think this stuff is necessarily hidden in Christian churches, but there's a huge difference from denomination to denomination in how much they actually focus on Biblical teachings. Interestingly, some of the most "Bible-based" churches don't teach all the scriptures in the Bible but focus on a very narrow selection while some of the more "liberal" churches follow a lectionary which takes them through most of the Bible in a very organized way over a period of about three years. Catholics tend to focus less on actual Biblical scripture and more on church dogma, so I would say this stuff is more likely to be "hidden" from Catholics and extreme right wing evangelicals than from mainstream reform-tradition Protestants. I was raised a Presbyterian and I can tell you that I was taught what the Ark of the Covenant looked like and how worship was conducted in the tabernacle. In a more liberal church, they really make no effort to hide or deny how Christianity has been influenced by Judaism and paganism all along.

[[cherokeewind]]

Actually. the Candlestick is mentioned in the New Testament, in the Book of Revelation. I won't take time to look it up at the moment... I believe it is before the Throne of God representing the Seven Spirits of God.
Songs of the Saints is to be as incense going up. Jesus is the High Priest.
Jesus Christ is said to have done away with the Old, nailing it to the cross. Oh, by the way, the cross was a Persian invention perfected by the Romans. Persia is now called Iran.
The curse of the Law was passed off on Jesus Christ also, in the Christian belief system. The reason for doing away with the Old, was a list of curses, if the Law was violated in any point The list starts out "Cursed shalt thou be coming in and going out" so at home, in the field, eventually result in sickness and death. The curses had to be passed off through a sacrifice, that is where the burnt offering alter came in. It had to be a horned animal. One sacrifice was called a scapegoat. Maybe that was the sin offering, don't have time to research it.

Some preachers are starting to admit a few things. Recently a TV evangelist, don't remember the name said Dragons really lived on the Earth. That was taken somewhere from the book of Job. Based on the fact there is some beetle which can scorch a frog with a blast from the back end. I tried searching in Google. Don't know the name of the beetle. Anyone hear of a fire spitting bug? I never have! It mentions in the Bible Dragons in the air, sea, and land. A conservative researcher has declared Dragons no longer a mythical creature.

Another conservative TV preacher announced the results of what expert architechtural engineers discoved in studying the dimentions of the Heavenly City mentioned in the Apocalypse. They concluded it to be pyramidic and with tiers large enough to house billions of people. This is the New Jerusalem that drops out of the sky after the Battle of Armaggeddon. If I remmember correctly, it has the 12 gemstones for the 12 tribes, constructed of the stones with streets of gold transparent like glass. In the Old, a High Priest had on a breastplate and it has the 12 gemstones associated each of a tribe.

So, Heaven is supposed to be like a giant pyramid, something like a Mayan temple, made with gemstones. No lights needed, the spritual power is to light it up.

I realize there are plenty of preachers who don't care...in their mind anything other than Chritian Theology is wrong. You can't convince them on any point. Christian Theology is changing all the time though, as events unfold.

I went to the Bible search engine to look for the Candlestick, making sure my memory is correct. Only came up once, but not in the right place. Tried “Seven Spirits Of God” and there it was. The 2nd reference reminds me of the 4 Spirit-Keepers in Native American and Guardians of the Wiccan belief system.

Here the 7 lamps of fire which are the SEVEN SPIRITS OF GOD.
Re 4:5
And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Four beast (animals) and Elders, and Jesus Christ as the SEVEN SPIRITS OF GOD
Re 5:6
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Jesus as the one who has THE SEVEN SPIRITS OF GOD and 7 stars
Re 3:1
And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars…

[Wolf*]

Wow, y'all must have had some really messed up preacher talk to you then. Because the church my parents and I go to do accually tell the people these things. They focus on the teachings of Jesus and the new testament rather than the old. But then again, Its a non-demoninational "Church of Christ" rather than baptist, or catholic or anything like that.

[[cherokeewind]]

Well yes, we had and still have a lot of messed up preachers throughout the Midwest. Some are busy selling teaching tapes on what is wrong wiith all the other messed up preachers. I belonged to a non-denominational church myself, along with my parents also. They taught healing, protection, things like that. According to that church, the New is actually a completion of the Old. That is the inner principles or promises in the Old are still good, just the Law isn't followed and curse of the Law removed. There is a lot of Christian trash out there, with no doctrinal basis at all. Some preachers try to sift through all the errors and correct the situation according to their own beliefs.

[jcrowfoot]

The thing about Protestantism is that it is frequently dictated by a reactionary attitude towards Catholocism. So anything that smacks of the Catholic church is immediately removed, since it was presumed that the "pagan" element is what led the the first church to corruption. So, incense... that's too pagan for the protestants, so it's got to go.

It's that simple. That's where all these paganesque things in the bible actually went from the Protestant perspective.

[Eretik]

HeHeHe,have a look at this,I spluttered my toast out laughing at this one..........

http://www.cephasministry.com/world_pop ... agick.html



There's plenty more like this too. It's not the site I mentioned before,that one is


http://redmoonrising.com/

The second one is more disturbing,in the 'Giza' parts,they dissect a great book 'David Rohl - Legend'[ which I am priveleged to say I own and love] agreeing with it so far....then a little further....then more....till WHAMMY! everything he says gets turned on a whim,to disprove fact and evidence,beautifully and coherently presented evidence,incidentally,using the famous 'Fundie Circular Logic' technique,whcih is so unique to them alone that scholars everywhere dissolve into fits of tumultous and hysterical laughter,thus disabling their ability to deconstruct this nonsense.....hmmmmm,maybe that's a better technique than I thought????????snarf.LOL.

On Protestantism,I read there is one particular book/writing that decries Catholicism,from the late 1800's,that is taken as 'gospel' by some US Christian groups.I 'll see if I can find the reference again.

[[cherokeewind]]

Oh yes, I saw the inverted cross...from what I've seen, Satanist would rather make their alter using Roman Catholic items. Back while the Magical Museum was still open here in Indiana. The Wiccan owner went to southern Indiana, because he had been called on to do a spell. A Roman Catholic Priest asked him to do a ritual to get back all the stuff Satanist stole from their church. It ended up on radio, the Satanic High Priest and members surrendered, brought everything they had taken. The Catholic Priest didn't want the stuff back after seeing what was done. The wood cross inverted, with white candles. So, one was donated to the Magical Museum and how I got to see it.

Red Moon Rising? I thought it was going to be a Wiccan site...

[Eretik]

Yeh,me too,or perhaps Ceremonial/Hermetic or somesuch discipline. I got confused on another topic 'cos Sobek used a picture from that site[ to illustrate the tree of life,that was all] but I thought he'd went renegade Christian, LOL,LOL,LOL, much confusion and silliness from me - but I thought I 'd check the site out anyway,The title relates to The Book of Revelations and the 'Blood Red Moon' with all the plagues etc. after the seals get opened. The logic is astounding.[not in a good way]