Excuse me Human
But I have a question for jcrowfoot and I must say Human and Eretik interaction is very interesting what ever the post is. My question is concerning a comment made in this thread http://www.everythingunderthemoon.net/f ... php?t=5887
Pretty much I ready Human threads to get insight into where not to go wrong and try to stay grounded. I’m not at all saying it’s wrong for Human because I have no idea who he is or at what level of development he is at. In addition we are traveling down the same road (Learning and enlighten) which has many forks in it and paths to wiccan, satanic, Hoodoo and everything else that out there on that road. Whats right for him may not fit everyone else. But tolerance must be the key to teaching and direction. Though human is very direct about what he wants in an odd way and eventually the scroll unrolls and we have a little more understanding what his desire to learn is. It is a great learning process.
My Question jcrowfoot is I'm not ready to seriously deal with the dead other then getting some graveyard dirt LOL! Plus I use my pendulum some times straight yes and no questions. I'm a fast learner but a cautious one as well. When I use my pendulum I usually smoke it a little by swing it through some incense Like helping hand and John the Conquer. I have found with my pendulum that one person I can talk to and be pretty sure that that is him. But other that Come in to answer at time I come to the conclusion that they are not who they are pretending to be and end the session abruptly. Can you explain to me how you can tell the look-alikes are not the person you really want to speak to?
In addition if you know a good site with a simple direct instruction when it comes to casting a circle? Some of these sites I just wonder if they know what they are talking about or cookie cutter sites spreading miss info around. What do you feel inside the circle when it’s casted? Can you cast a circle and just feel at peace there not doing anything. Calling anyone making it Just your space? Like your private time leaving all the hassles of the day behind?
If any one else has a comment on the subject please feel free to post.
Excuse me Human a question for JCROWFOOT & ERETIK
OK. The underlying secret to everything you ask is a combination of energy work and perception.
A good circle can be felt or otherwise perceived through the faculties one usually uses for energy work. When you are inside the circle, you feel it's completeness, and you are physically aware of that energy wall around you. Some people can "see" it. One friend of mine actually "hears" energy, which is unusual, but hey, whatever works.
Second, with practice, you can tell who's who and what's what with the individuals you work with. Let me explain. Once you have a regular "chat" with a being, you can match their tone, their additude, and the general energy or base feelings that they inspire in you. Also, once you get good at reading astral communication, you can tell if someone's being honest or not, or if they are "tricky" and what they are saying is not what they mean, or if they want you to learn something from what they say but not what you think, etc. It's not always %100 clear, and sometimes not even helpful, but it is there.
I find that beings that are less than honest have a vibe about them, that I can't readily explain. It feels chaotic, but more than that, because frequently, beings from chaotic spiritual places are actually honest. You just have to know what perspectives they are drawing on, and that's the hard part.
Personally, I think this is why the duality between "good" spirits and "bad" spirits lasted so long. It's much harder to tell if you can trust a spirit with a yes no question than if you say, "well, this spirit is chaotic, but usually honest. I wonder what perspective they are looking at this problem with?"
Have you seen the (original!) Starwars trillogy? Well, that part where Obiwan talks about truth from a certian point of view? Well, that's where it gets complicated.
Penjulums, in my experience, tend to give pretty straightforward answers. My suggestion is to make a journal about every session you have, and start describing the experiences you have while working with the object. Your feelings, your thoughts, etc. Like, did you have trouble clearing your mind that day? Did you feel strong and grounded, or light headed and confused? That kind of thing. Then record your answers and the question, then go back to it later. Be sure you describe your perceptions in a way you can key specifically to the kenesthetic reactions you have. We don't have good words for them, unfortunately. However, after a while, you will find patterns for true answers. Through that process you can find out who to trust.
This, believe it or not, will help you with your energy work. Our perceptions of energy are keyed into our emotions and our subjective self. The problem is that our everyday emotions tend to get in the way of figuring out what's honest and what isn't. This is why a lot of practitioners go to others for divination that they feel strongly about... their own ideation about the problem may well get in the way. This is why all old metaphysicians always say, "Know Thyself." IF you know how you are going to react to a given set of data, you can usually figure out how that will effect your perceptions, with practice.
You see, being in a spiritual head space is like being in water. You can feel the emotions flooding off of things, people and spirits. Sometimes they are very subtle things. After all, some beings might try to cover up the truth of a situation with lots and lots of emotion, what ever that might be. But like water, every stone makes another vibration, and if you pay attention you can perceive the lie behind the truth. This is why having a circle is important... so you can block out the background noise of the whole of the world's vibrations and limit it to the things you want to work with.
Sometimes you can see what the truth is, but frequently you can't, either because what you are working with, and you, don't know what it is.
However, most beings always latch on to something important. When it is mentioned, you look at it, and figure out what that importance is. Sometimes, it's just a topic or concept that grabs you, that makes you pay attention. Or something you really really want. That's important info to have all by itself, and can lead to good insights.
So all that being said, where to start? Start by grounding and centering, and meditation. Clearing your mind, and figuring out what works. Then, comparing where you feel good, vs. where you feel bad. Is there a place where you always feel content? A place that brings you peace no matter what your mind is doing or thinking? Go there, and feel on a very deep level, by relaxing and pouring your perceptions tho their limits. You rest, become empty, become relaxed, and try to understand that place with every pore of your being. Then, open your eyes, and look around, and try to see what it is you are sensing. Where is that vibe coming from? The earth? That lake over there? The air? That you can see the stars? IS it the weeds growing over there? Look everywhere. Then, reach out with your hands and try to feel where that good vibe is coming from. Pick up objects and see if they feel like they are a part of that vibe, or if they are just feeling good because they are there, like you are. Write down your findings.
Next, practice cleansing your work area, or where you usually do your metaphysical work. Start with a physical cleansing, up to and including polishing the wood of the table, vaccuming the carpet, all that. It's boring. Then, stop and see how it feels. Close your eyes, and let it all in. Then, work with your incenses, and make that check again. Do the same things you did for that place you like, and compare notes.
As for websites... well... I started on this path before there were good websites to look at, and I'm not familiar with what's out there, except in a very basic sense. I have knocked around "witches vox" but that's more for networking, though they have very good stuff for that as well as articles of note about what's going on in the world today. But for on-line magickal instruction... I haven't seen much for free that inspires me. There are many who offer instruction for a price, and while that's ok, you don't know what you are getting until you pay for it. Rather like a book.
There are also some very interesting articles at Issac Bonewitz's website, but that's more political than energy stuff... usually. He's all over the map. However, Real Magic is a very interesting read. I think he goes overboard about just how much you can use Magic for, but it's still a great outline for how magick works. There's a mini article on his website that gives a good intro. He just put out a book called "Real Energy" as a collaboration with his wife, who is Wiccan. I can't wait to get it, to see what he's got. So I can point you to books, but not so much websites, sorry.
Also, for books, check out Christopher Penczak. "The Inner Temple of Witchcraft" has a great course on energy work. You may not be a Wiccan, but he's still got very good stuff.
Guys, I'll edit the spelling mistakes later. I've got to go eat... and this took me a LONG time to write...
A good circle can be felt or otherwise perceived through the faculties one usually uses for energy work. When you are inside the circle, you feel it's completeness, and you are physically aware of that energy wall around you. Some people can "see" it. One friend of mine actually "hears" energy, which is unusual, but hey, whatever works.
Second, with practice, you can tell who's who and what's what with the individuals you work with. Let me explain. Once you have a regular "chat" with a being, you can match their tone, their additude, and the general energy or base feelings that they inspire in you. Also, once you get good at reading astral communication, you can tell if someone's being honest or not, or if they are "tricky" and what they are saying is not what they mean, or if they want you to learn something from what they say but not what you think, etc. It's not always %100 clear, and sometimes not even helpful, but it is there.
I find that beings that are less than honest have a vibe about them, that I can't readily explain. It feels chaotic, but more than that, because frequently, beings from chaotic spiritual places are actually honest. You just have to know what perspectives they are drawing on, and that's the hard part.
Personally, I think this is why the duality between "good" spirits and "bad" spirits lasted so long. It's much harder to tell if you can trust a spirit with a yes no question than if you say, "well, this spirit is chaotic, but usually honest. I wonder what perspective they are looking at this problem with?"
Have you seen the (original!) Starwars trillogy? Well, that part where Obiwan talks about truth from a certian point of view? Well, that's where it gets complicated.
Penjulums, in my experience, tend to give pretty straightforward answers. My suggestion is to make a journal about every session you have, and start describing the experiences you have while working with the object. Your feelings, your thoughts, etc. Like, did you have trouble clearing your mind that day? Did you feel strong and grounded, or light headed and confused? That kind of thing. Then record your answers and the question, then go back to it later. Be sure you describe your perceptions in a way you can key specifically to the kenesthetic reactions you have. We don't have good words for them, unfortunately. However, after a while, you will find patterns for true answers. Through that process you can find out who to trust.
This, believe it or not, will help you with your energy work. Our perceptions of energy are keyed into our emotions and our subjective self. The problem is that our everyday emotions tend to get in the way of figuring out what's honest and what isn't. This is why a lot of practitioners go to others for divination that they feel strongly about... their own ideation about the problem may well get in the way. This is why all old metaphysicians always say, "Know Thyself." IF you know how you are going to react to a given set of data, you can usually figure out how that will effect your perceptions, with practice.
You see, being in a spiritual head space is like being in water. You can feel the emotions flooding off of things, people and spirits. Sometimes they are very subtle things. After all, some beings might try to cover up the truth of a situation with lots and lots of emotion, what ever that might be. But like water, every stone makes another vibration, and if you pay attention you can perceive the lie behind the truth. This is why having a circle is important... so you can block out the background noise of the whole of the world's vibrations and limit it to the things you want to work with.
Sometimes you can see what the truth is, but frequently you can't, either because what you are working with, and you, don't know what it is.
However, most beings always latch on to something important. When it is mentioned, you look at it, and figure out what that importance is. Sometimes, it's just a topic or concept that grabs you, that makes you pay attention. Or something you really really want. That's important info to have all by itself, and can lead to good insights.
So all that being said, where to start? Start by grounding and centering, and meditation. Clearing your mind, and figuring out what works. Then, comparing where you feel good, vs. where you feel bad. Is there a place where you always feel content? A place that brings you peace no matter what your mind is doing or thinking? Go there, and feel on a very deep level, by relaxing and pouring your perceptions tho their limits. You rest, become empty, become relaxed, and try to understand that place with every pore of your being. Then, open your eyes, and look around, and try to see what it is you are sensing. Where is that vibe coming from? The earth? That lake over there? The air? That you can see the stars? IS it the weeds growing over there? Look everywhere. Then, reach out with your hands and try to feel where that good vibe is coming from. Pick up objects and see if they feel like they are a part of that vibe, or if they are just feeling good because they are there, like you are. Write down your findings.
Next, practice cleansing your work area, or where you usually do your metaphysical work. Start with a physical cleansing, up to and including polishing the wood of the table, vaccuming the carpet, all that. It's boring. Then, stop and see how it feels. Close your eyes, and let it all in. Then, work with your incenses, and make that check again. Do the same things you did for that place you like, and compare notes.
As for websites... well... I started on this path before there were good websites to look at, and I'm not familiar with what's out there, except in a very basic sense. I have knocked around "witches vox" but that's more for networking, though they have very good stuff for that as well as articles of note about what's going on in the world today. But for on-line magickal instruction... I haven't seen much for free that inspires me. There are many who offer instruction for a price, and while that's ok, you don't know what you are getting until you pay for it. Rather like a book.
There are also some very interesting articles at Issac Bonewitz's website, but that's more political than energy stuff... usually. He's all over the map. However, Real Magic is a very interesting read. I think he goes overboard about just how much you can use Magic for, but it's still a great outline for how magick works. There's a mini article on his website that gives a good intro. He just put out a book called "Real Energy" as a collaboration with his wife, who is Wiccan. I can't wait to get it, to see what he's got. So I can point you to books, but not so much websites, sorry.
Also, for books, check out Christopher Penczak. "The Inner Temple of Witchcraft" has a great course on energy work. You may not be a Wiccan, but he's still got very good stuff.
Guys, I'll edit the spelling mistakes later. I've got to go eat... and this took me a LONG time to write...
No problem. You phrased the question particularly well, and that helped me focus on what parts to explain. I've tried explaining circles and energy before, even on this website... and it didn't come out as well as when you asked me.
Your research and info sound very interesting and very... difficult. Of course, one of the freaky about the past, particularly for modern Americans and Europeans, is that the past, well... sucked. Sure there was joy, but it was small brief moments in a lot of hardship.
Your research and info sound very interesting and very... difficult. Of course, one of the freaky about the past, particularly for modern Americans and Europeans, is that the past, well... sucked. Sure there was joy, but it was small brief moments in a lot of hardship.
The dead people I've spoken with always showed up uninvited by me. I used to find it freaky and unwelcome. It takes a bit of getting used to. I learned to shut them out before I learned to listen -I'm still selective to this day.I didn't ask for this and I need to have some time for my needs too. That about sums up my attitude. That aside,I find that contacting a dead person is difficult once they leave this plane - the longer dead the harder it gets. I have to travel over there.I do not 'summon' or call them here.This is called 'journeying' I find this type [underworld/Shadowlands] quite unpleasant as the Shadow lands are not like this world, I am always aware that I must not tarry too long,I shouldn't really be there -in Shamanism, the little death means that we have one foot in this realm and the other in the Shadow, but we don't fully belong in either -it is odd.[you can get forgetful of this world] and I need to go through memories which are not mine -it can feel 'icky' and they sometimes stay for days after[the memories -confusing] I don't cast a circle but I use trance states to acheive my 'jouneying frame of mind' I only do this type of work for unusual cases,/problems -where I deem this necessary -It is not something I enjoy much. If someone has unfinished business -they will be easy to reach as they are 'hanging around' in this plane, so to speak. Again I see no need for a circle but I do have my red jasper on my neck and my house is warded,though I most often see my 'ghostly' friends outside,at the riverside etc. I am not much use in the practice of 'summoning' I believe it to be 'disrespectful' to command spirits,though I know a few people who do it like this with successful results,but maybe that is also why the 'summoned' are not always true or trustworthy???
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Mozelle Ellis
Eretik thanks for posting. That was very interesting since I’ve never experience going any where like that. Glad to know it’s not a pleasant place to visit. I did have a few nights a couple weeks back where I was asleep and it felt as though someone was holding me down 3 times. I remember because each time I did wake up for a few seconds I knew I had to go Pee , but just to tired to get up and make that trip. The previous weeks before that I had experience the same thing. A rootworker told me that that was my soul either trying to leaving my body or trying to get back in. Now where I was trying to go I don't know. I'm more of a dreamer a vivid dreamer. Can have multi dreams in one night or one really long one and remember them with great detail. Always been that way. Some of the major ones come true.
Sometime I would like to talk about this.
Sometime I would like to talk about this.
I think your root worker is right. When you feel like that, your soul is trying to wander, but as far as I know, that's normal. When you dream, you go traveling in the astral and doing stuff, or sometimes just wandering around in your own private reality where you try to figure things out.
As for dead people, I *never* demand the people show up. I ask politely, with the understanding that if no one shows up, I'm cool with it. True you risk having boarders who don't actually belong, but with the right guards and shields you don't have to worry much about the wrong folks showing up.
More often, nobody shows because they can't. I also have a couple of crow spirits who can go off to the underworld and chat with folks out there to see if they know anything about those dead people... and they know what they aren't allowed to tell me, and I don't ask them to break that code. Sometimes they don't answer. Magick is not like a light switch.
As for dead people, I *never* demand the people show up. I ask politely, with the understanding that if no one shows up, I'm cool with it. True you risk having boarders who don't actually belong, but with the right guards and shields you don't have to worry much about the wrong folks showing up.
More often, nobody shows because they can't. I also have a couple of crow spirits who can go off to the underworld and chat with folks out there to see if they know anything about those dead people... and they know what they aren't allowed to tell me, and I don't ask them to break that code. Sometimes they don't answer. Magick is not like a light switch.
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