Christian Creation Story

[Addalaide]

Something i find very curius, isnt it true men are arruly female in the womb up untell a certin age/week? Its kinda funny that a male god whould creat all his childron as females befor the true gender is desided. I wont go into grafic detales about that part, but from what i understand thats why there are hermafridies, testoteron didnt completly come into effect the way it should have ( or estragen was to stong ) and the male...didnt look male...Ok i dont like getting into that part to much, to grafic for me to be corfortable explaning........sorry....

The way i was always explaned the adam and eve thing was, eve was tricked into it, she had no idea what she was doing, adam was the one who acculy sined....but then agin i get told by....male...christions no the woman is the evil sinner!....I belive the bible did say at one time wemon had no souls, then some wemon god very upset so thats when we got our souls back.

Oh yeah and get this, i asked my mom about the eve and the female animal thing, and she said Yes wemon where made for men, and to be comanded by men, and yes there was female animals, but we are differnt.
Yeah...thats a big WTF!?!....i wanted to flip when she told me that, cause yeah if my mom did what my dad said, then she whould acculy have a clean house and not a little dump hole....sorry i have issues with my mother...

I will end there for now.

Oh yes and QIO i dont see the word cult as a word, it has become obsolet to me because it can be used in so many differnt ways, and there are so many diffinitions, that cults can even get around it and say there not a cult. So sorry but it isnt a word to me. Its also a respect thing, i know thay cant respect us enught to not say we are a cult, but we dont look much differnt when we call them a cult.

Ok now i am done..

[QIO]

Something i find very curius, isnt it true men are arruly female in the womb up untell a certin age/week? Its kinda funny that a male god whould creat all his childron as females befor the true gender is desided. I wont go into grafic detales about that part, but from what i understand thats why there are hermafridies, testoteron didnt completly come into effect the way it should have ( or estragen was to stong ) and the male...didnt look male...Ok i dont like getting into that part to much, to grafic for me to be corfortable explaning........sorry....

Actually they are both male and female in the womb, the clitoris is just a shrunken penis really.

The way i was always explaned the adam and eve thing was, eve was tricked into it, she had no idea what she was doing, adam was the one who acculy sined....but then agin i get told by....male...christions no the woman is the evil sinner!....I belive the bible did say at one time wemon had no souls, then some wemon god very upset so thats when we got our souls back.

You can of course back this up with evidence?

Oh yeah and get this, i asked my mom about the eve and the female animal thing, and she said Yes wemon where made for men, and to be comanded by men, and yes there was female animals, but we are differnt.
Yeah...thats a big WTF!?!....i wanted to flip when she told me that, cause yeah if my mom did what my dad said, then she whould acculy have a clean house and not a little dump hole....sorry i have issues with my mother...

I think it is more traditional then anything else, I wouldnt say that women are subserviant to men, just that traditionally we have different roles. The problems arise when society evolves but our thoughts and traditions do not.

I come from a culture where women obey the men, brothers have more rights than sisters etc, as much as I have tried to break my wifes mindset on this she is adamant that it is the only right way and I am left to make all the descisions in the home.
I will end there for now.

Oh yes and QIO i dont see the word cult as a word,

Oh really then what do the groupings of characters mean to you?

it has become obsolet to me because it can be used in so many differnt ways, and there are so many diffinitions,

errr no, it has only one definition:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Cult&x=0&y=0

Basically a group of people that venerate the same thing and have rites etc. So christianity and pretty much all religious beliefs are cults....even to extent secularism.

that cults can even get around it and say there not a cult.

I can say I am not a human...that doesnt make it ttrue.

So sorry but it isnt a word to me.

If we gather the characters together and they form a descriptive tool that is accepted by society and it is not a word...then what is it?

Its also a respect thing, i know thay cant respect us enught to not say we are a cult, but we dont look much differnt when we call them a cult.

Ok now i am done..

A rose by any other name is just as sweet!

As I said I can call a leaf a snrfwidget,or a paganist a snautrfew....that doesnt mean they are not what they are.

Just some things to think about?

[QIO]

EDIT****

Deleted double post.

[Addalaide]

I didnt lern to much about it, also isnt the dark line down the scrotum the scare from where it grew together?
I was told thay where female up to a certin age.

I read it online, and saw it on a documentary at one time, but i just spend a fue minets looking it up and found nothing, so i cant back it up right now.

Personaly i am submissive its my persinality, i want to be in charge of the house , cleaning cooking decorating and things, but i prefer my fionce to make desitions with money, sence he is the one who works for it. But my personality make me where i dont want to be in controle, i will give my opinion, but i dont want the desition to be made by me.

Ok so evey thing can be a cult as long as a person dose it with another person?

Definition #6, Whould that mean that if i belive my religion is wright, and that evey one ealse is wrong, that i am not in a cult, but evey one ealse is?

Quite intresting, thanks for chalenging my post.

[QIO]

I didnt lern to much about it, also isnt the dark line down the scrotum the scare from where it grew together?
I was told thay where female up to a certin age.

I read it online, and saw it on a documentary at one time, but i just spend a fue minets looking it up and found nothing, so i cant back it up right now.

Actually there are two sides to this, it hasnt been determined yet if it is true or not. I was merely offering the other hypothesis.

If you click this link you will see the side that talks about hormonal changes:

http://research.umbc.edu/~korenman/wmst/fetus.html

Personaly i am submissive its my persinality, i want to be in charge of the house , cleaning cooking decorating and things, but i prefer my fionce to make desitions with money, sence he is the one who works for it. But my personality make me where i dont want to be in controle, i will give my opinion, but i dont want the desition to be made by me.

Exactly my point. There is no such thing as right and wrong, each person singularly or as a community decides what is good or bad, very basic Anthropology.

Ok so evey thing can be a cult as long as a person dose it with another person?

Definition #6, Whould that mean that if i belive my religion is wright, and that evey one ealse is wrong, that i am not in a cult, but evey one ealse is?

Not quite, it doesnt need to have all of the things stated even if it only has one.

If yopu practice rites, like prayer, acknowledging the deity that is considered a rite.

It is the rites that make all religions a cult.

Quite intresting, thanks for chalenging my post.[/quote]

[Tinu]

Quick biology lesson guys:

At the moment of conception, half of the mother's gene's and half of the father's genes are combined to make one new being. Genes that determine gender are also given at that time. Because a woman's gender genes are XX, and a man's gender genes are XY, then the mother can only give an X, and the father can give an X or Y.

Since it is at the moment of conception that the new being's genes are all combined, then it is either male or female at the moment of conception. Now, if we go into anatomy, then its at about 12 weeks after cenception or so. I know when I was pregnant with my daughter, the dr was trying to see in the ultrasound at 18 weeks, but said it was still too tiny to really determine either way, that I would have to wait till about 20 weeks or so.

[WolfWitch]

Something i find very curius, isnt it true men are arruly female in the womb up untell a certin age/week? Its kinda funny that a male god whould creat all his childron as females befor the true gender is desided. I wont go into grafic detales about that part, but from what i understand thats why there are hermafridies, testoteron didnt completly come into effect the way it should have ( or estragen was to stong ) and the male...didnt look male...Ok i dont like getting into that part to much, to grafic for me to be corfortable explaning........sorry....

Actually you're close but not quite on target. In the womb for the first few weeks between being a mass of replicating cells and a little boy/girl to be, we are in fact neither. There first developes a pair of glandular cells. These will either be testies or ovaries depending on the geno-blueprints execution. but until the triggers tell them to go one way or the other, they aren't either, They only share the basic properties that all glands possess. Also, two raised mounds forrm to either side of the still forming urinary tract. They look almost exactly like the vulva. This is and the gland masses are called the genital cluster. It may look close to female but it is in fact, neither. Once the triggers go off, either they stay were they are and become the labia or the gland masses drop into them and the distend and grow together and become the scrotum. BTW, forgot to add, a small raised mass at the front of the cluster that contains some of the tightest bundles of nerves in the skin and muscle tissues will either, depending on the blueprint, turn into the Clitoris or the bulk of the penis.

Isn't genetics fun?!?

This concludes the "Mr. Biology." part of my course.

The way i was always explaned the adam and eve thing was, eve was tricked into it, she had no idea what she was doing, adam was the one who acculy sined....but then agin i get told by....male...christions no the woman is the evil sinner!....I belive the bible did say at one time wemon had no souls, then some wemon god very upset so thats when we got our souls back.

I never heard that before. As far as I remember. Eve was made from Adams rib but still had a soul. Interesting though. Where did you first here that theory? I'd like to read a little of it myself.
Somewhere, I'm going to have to dig and see if I still have the print outs, but I have seen what was claimed to be a translation of the "dead sea scrolls." and they basically said that Lucifer didn't fall. He was placed in charge of hell when God told him to watch over it. According to this "translation", Adam wasn't tempted by Eve and Eve wasn't tempted by a snake. Adam and Eve ate of the tree of their own volition and of their own curiosity. We sort of dammed ourselves all on our own.

Oh yes and QIO i dont see the word cult as a word, it has become obsolet to me because it can be used in so many differnt ways, and there are so many diffinitions, that cults can even get around it and say there not a cult. So sorry but it isnt a word to me. Its also a respect thing, i know thay cant respect us enught to not say we are a cult, but we dont look much differnt when we call them a cult.

Ok now i am done..

I think what you mean to say is that you don't see or believe in "cult" as a meaning, not a word.

I'm going to agree with Qio on this. I could say I'm not a person. Doesn't make it so though.

These are just my opinions and what I learned in the "parenthood" classes when my son was on the way years ago.

BB

WW.

[Kristofski]

Ok first, what i find intresting is 2 things in the christion religion, first with, eve wasnt the first woman, there was another from what i remeber reading, she rebelled agist adam and i think the christion story gose (she whent to hell and gave birth to demonic children or something like that i think) and eve was created from adam afterwords, ok now rewind a little adam is alone with the animals right? Then god see's hes sad so then he creates eve from adam. hurm...where there no female animals befor eve then? Or where there female animals like there was a female befor but the christions want men to own wemon? I find genises a little mixed up myself. Kinda like that tryed to hard to cover something up. I dont know much about what is said to be the first true woman, but i have read and seen many refferences to her.

This is the story of Lilith, and though it was included in the original manuscrips it has since been "discredited" by people who apparantly know about these sorts of things, and they can prove its not really the true word of God . Isn't it great how those in power in Christianity can pick and choose which parts of the bible they want to use to control people?

Kristofski xx

[Kristofski]

Quick biology lesson guys:

Since it is at the moment of conception that the new being's genes are all combined, then it is either male or female at the moment of conception.

Though there are people who develop as female and have XY chromasomes (these women look completly female and often never have any idea about this). I don't know if it happens the other way round though, someone who has XX chromasomes yet developes as male.

I'm just pointing out that gender and sex aren't as cut and dry as people think. We can see this with the problems with the "gender tests" brought in by sporting events.

[Peregrine]

I was looking back on old threads when this one caught my eye and I cannot help but put in my two cents, mostly because it is a topic that hits extremely close to my heart.

I was raised to believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis including the creation story. When I got older and became interested in the sciences, thing began to clash and my worldview eventually collapsed. It was one of the causes of my leaving the church. People blame evolution for separating me from God, which is not what happened at all. As I studied evolution in school, along with other sciences and even math theory (such as what I read in Chaos by James Gleick and his chapter on fractal geometry), it actually brought me CLOSER to the Creator. It was not science that pushed me away, but the intolerant nature of a literal interpretation of Genesis. It was an extremely unfair situation but it happened, along with the fact that I am female and thus I, too, had issues with the villification and subservience of women.

Now, in many ways, my current husband is the dominant one, but I do not "blame" it on our male and female genders. I think some of it does have to do with a double-whammy on both our parts, my being born as a Virgo in the Western zodiac and the year of the sheep on the Chinese zodiac (so a servant-and-servant double whammy) and his being born as a Taurus under the Western zodiac and the dragon on the Chinese zodiac (very passionate dominating master-and-master double whammy). Yet ironically *I* drive the car because he has no driver's license and he gives me almost total control over the money issues and financial decisions. He gets his paycheck, signs it, and just hands it over to me to juggle the bills and such.

As for the other issues about Christianity borrowing heavily from Paganism, one thing I point out a lot and I've seen it make certain groups of Christians uncomfortable is the Dionysian branch of worship known as Orphism (as in the High Priest Orpheus) that is known now to have existed before Christ by at least 600 years. In this tradition, the death and rebirth of Dionysius (when he had been dismembered by crazed Titans and consumed, but the heart implanted into the hip of Zeus and thus leading to his return/rebirth) was given a sacred memorial service involving the consumption of barley cakes and wine. It was the tamer way of traditional Dionysian worship that involved dismembering a live bull and then consuming it.

The ways of Orphism had a lot more tolerance though. While they were monotheistic, they also believed that "all roads lead to Dionysius" and in reincarnation. A quicker way to evolve and find your way to Orphic heaven involved a very strict, self-denying way of life, yes. And at times they were ridiculed for their crankiness because of it. But my point is, this death and rebirth, the monotheism, and the symbolism of the barley cakes and wine symbolizing the body and the blood, all existed a long time before Christ.

Furthermore, when I took a Kabballah 101 introductory course a few years ago (and I have read this in other resources since then), the whole Adam and Eve story was not intended to be taken literally. Words like "Adam" were codewords that had other meanings, analogous in this online course to reading musical notes. In babyfood music, you read of things such as "FACE," "All Cows Eat Grass," and "Every Good Boy Does Fine," but these have nothing to do with visage, graminivorous mammals, or the fate of well-behaved male children. So it is with Adam, Eve, Serpent, Eden, and so forth. Even so, never does it say that Adam and Eve ate an APPLE, it only says a Forbiden Fruit but the Fruit is never specified. From what I was taught to believe also, serpent and snake were not synonymous but that the serpent was cursed afterwards to crawl around, as though before it had wings and/or legs.

Also, it seems like a lot of Creation Stories in various cultures have their own people as the first people. In a Cherokee story I read, the first man and woman were Cherokee and they had a fruit, specified as the strawberry; but their story is quite light-hearted and the strawberry is a welcomed fruit for happiness and peace in the household, not a cursed and forbidden fruit. In a Zuni story of creation I read, they are the first people and in place of a fruit was corn, again not a curse but a blessing. Why in the Bible and in Greek mythology (Pandora, the first woman) there is such a heavy-handedness especially with the first woman is puzzling and just a wee bit disturbing.

Got to go. Speaking of doing the driving, my husband just called and I have to go pick him up.