The main reason why astral projections and OBE-s are bad

[Sobek]

is it just me or is this going both in circles and nowhere at the same time?

[Eretik]

Yes, circular logic in action.

[Eretik]

My problem with this, is, tell me something is 'bad' - I then expect knowledgable explanation, tell me there is an alternative - this should be more than wrapping the previously decribed 'bad' thing in the same terms as before but saying it is different, when it can be shown not to be. Is witchcraft then, a 'good thing' if it is seen as 'mental' discipline but a 'bad thing' if it is seen as 'spiritual' discipline? [ incidentally, I know there are different views on this idea, We do not all see the same perspective, I am more concerned with the 'why Astral projection is bad' view and the 'why' part]

[Pakkaram]

So, pod = auric or ethereal energy field, thus using this to 'be in' is stepping outside the physical body while being conscious of doing so, during a lucid dream[ astral or etheric projection], an act of will, in the dream[ you experience yourself as the pod ] surely leaving, an empty spot in the dream, As you are now outside yourself, in the 'pod'? This is Astral projection, whether you call it so or not.

I am using one astral projection book (what I got from Internet) here to exactly understand the terms You use. Here is written:

Etheric matter is the actual life force substance generated by all living things by simply being alive. It is a substance in-between physical matter and astral matter, part physical and part astral. This etheric matter has actual weight. It is a very refined substance in between matter and energy and is similar to its coarser cousin, ectoplasm. There have been scientific studies done on this phenomenon. Dying people in hospitals
have had their beds placed on delicate scales shortly before death and hooked up to EEG and ECG monitors. In all cases, at the exact moment of death, a sudden weight loss of approximately one quarter of an ounce is observed. This is caused by a large amount of etheric matter being transferred into the astral body at the moment of physical death. This is similar to the sudden transfer of etheric matter into the astral body during a near death experience where the body believes it is dying. This sudden, massive transfer of etheric matter is the start of the death process.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the base of this info I disagree with You. This what You call an etheral energy field, I think it is the same thing what I call as the energetical body what has to stay with the physical body, so there wouldn't be an emty spot.

When people astral project or OBE, then they go out from their body with the energetical body. The pod is Your field of much higher level than Your ethereal energy field and the pod isn't meant to stay with the physical body.

How can I step out from myself into My pod at all ? My pod is everywhere on the planet, it is the field what has the range of the whole planet Earth.
When using the seeing with mind picture method You doesn't have to leave an emty spot in Your physical body. You just tune Yourself on the pod (You swich to pod). You become a pod what holds a connection with Your physical body and shows You this picture what You want to see (for example some thing or some place). You are entirety being what consists of many different parts (physical body, energetical body, pod, etc.) what are connected with each other and can use them all.

About the lucid dreaming. When awakening in the dream. You with Your this part what is in the dream (the character in the dream) doesn't do it, You make Yourself awake in the dream with Your pod. You can take the control over the rest of the parts with Your physical body or with Your pod (pod can control physical body if needed and physical body can control the pod if there is a need to). You do not have to go out from any of Your bodies to do it.

Because of this, the seeing with mind picture method is not the astral projection. It is using Your pod instead of Your energerical body to see things or places. You can do it even when driving a car. You do not have to turn off Your physical body (with trance method or some other method), so You could go out from Your physical body with Your energetical body.

[Pakkaram]

My problem with this, is, tell me something is 'bad' - I then expect knowledgable explanation, tell me there is an alternative - this should be more than wrapping the previously decribed 'bad' thing in the same terms as before but saying it is different, when it can be shown not to be. Is witchcraft then, a 'good thing' if it is seen as 'mental' discipline but a 'bad thing' if it is seen as 'spiritual' discipline? [ incidentally, I know there are different views on this idea, We do not all see the same perspective, I am more concerned with the 'why Astral projection is bad' view and the 'why' part]

I didn't say You should take witchcraft as mental discipline. I just explained these terms what I use so you could understand what I mean with some foreign term and we could discuss about astral projections, OBE-s and seeing with a mind picture method. For me the witchcraft deals with other realities and this surroundings where we operate with witchcraft forms a person's mental side and supernatural side too (different supernatural abilities what he/she could use here: healing, remote viewing, telepathy, etc.).
I explained why I use a bit different term when talking about this what You call spiritual. I write more than You ask because I want that others who read could understand too.

I explained what I see as alternative. Alternative is using this thing what I call a pod to see things and places instead of using Your energetical body what should stay with Your body.

EDITED: I improved this post here after posting.

[Eretik]

In your last but one post you are describing astral projection when you talk of your pod being everywhere and you being able to access the whole world, you are using different descriptions and words but you are not describing a seperate phenomenon: you need to learn more on this before you make statements about it like- 'Why Astral Projection is bad'. One paragraph of a book is not enough to understand, never mind denounce, Astral projection. I would be interested to know if you will post a topic I saw from you elsewhere? It was about 'whining women' I think you would get a huge response to that piece of philosophy, I 'd like to see it again.

P.S. if anyone is curious PM me and I 'll give you the link.

[Sercee]

I pm'd you but it's giving me a failure/debug error.

I'm curious to read this, whether it's good for me or not.

[Eretik]

I think I'd like to know about the role of women in Tokroda, if there is one and about the heirarchy or Priestly structure,some more on the practices too.

[Sobek]

i keep gettin the error too Sercee, but the message goes through, just to make sure check your outbox

lol Eretik...im beginning to wonder if women even are allowed to practice!

[Sercee]

Well, I was angry by the end of the first few sentences, but I was just completely disgusted that people actually think that by the end of it... off topic, I know, but it's a pretty good example showing a person who doesn't think very hard before presenting an argument...

[Eretik]

Circular logic.

[Sercee]

I think it's more like flat logic... as in I want to flatten people who say that stuff.

[Draconis]

Personally my opinion is - If there's no risk then its not worth doing.
everything we do has risk and taht makes it worth while to know we have overcome that risk, challenged ourselves and furthered our abilities for the future.

[Sercee]

Excellent philosophy!

[Istaqa]

Personally my opinion is - If there's no risk then its not worth doing.

Very macho i assume you didnt eat breakfast this morning?

Seriously there are enough real risks without chasing them. Sit under a tree and listen to the forest. Take time to watch the lives arround you. Take time to listen to the spirits and learn from them. Hold a baby.
Kiss the one you love