Hi. So, my family is devout Roman Catholic. I Have 3 problems here:
1) I am not 18 yet
2) I follow Wicca
3) My family wants me to be confirmed soon (as a Catholic)
I know the first one is a big one, but bear with me here. I do not have an altar or tools (yet) nor do I do anything blatantly Pagan. I feel that I have been overall reasonable and tried to keep a low profile (especially after a VERY ugly argument in which most of my occult books were maliciously destroyed, but that's for another day). I do not use candles (I substituted battery operated tea lights), I do NOT do drugs or alcohol, I maintain a modest wardrobe and clean appearance, I am NOT active (you know what I mean), I do NOT wear religious jewellery (sp?) of ANY sort, I do NOT curse, I DO volunteer at a library, and I AM considering a bake sale for a charitable group (Religion Neutral). I am trying here, really I am, but I still need help.
Please give me some advice on the following:
1) How to avoid Confirmation
2) How to avoid and resolve conflict with my family
3) How to communicate with them in a manner that doesn't offend either party in ANY way.
4) How to put it to them that I want to become vegetarian
5) How to understand their perspective
6) How to practice my Faith without offending anybody
7) How to research the Craft without offending anybody
8) How to put together a Book of Shadows
9) How to be a productive member in the community and, by extension, the World
10) How to come out of the Closet (Again) when I am 18 without upsetting them
11) How to overcome my anger and bad feelings on my own
12) How to conduct myself in a Catholic church
13) How to talk to them about both Wicca and Catholicism without an ugly fight ensuing
14) How to help them understand my perspective (in a respectful and friendly manner)
15) How to enjoy the holidays with them
16) Some good beginner spells that don't require a lot of extras
Thanks and Blessed Be!
Brujita
P.S. I am NOT into Wicca for the spells, I consider it a beautiful faith and feel proud to call myself a student of this noble path. Also, the above list may seem daunting but I ask that
you understand 2 things:
1) I do NOT expect a miracle, cure-all answer or quick fix.
I know it'll be hard, but with the right information and an open-minded approach, I believe that many things can be accomplished
2) This post is addressed to EVERYBODY
Family--- The Ties That Bind and Gag
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BallisticJW
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:12 am
- Gender: Female
Re: Family--- The Ties That Bind and Gag
I don't know. I think you should talk to them. I think you should just be honest and explain why you are not ready to be confirmed, and that it is your decision and a very important one at that.
Maybe you should start with getting out of the confirmation before you gently tell them that your path is your own and you feel more connected to the pagan path.
I would first tell them "Mom, Dad I love you but I am not ready for confirmation. Please try to understand me and hear me out, and not judge or try to force me into confirmation. I know why it is important you, but I wouldn't feel good about myself if I did something I wasn't ready for. I know this might be hard and even hurtful to you but I am not ready".
Once you get that all out the way... which may take time, I myself was raised with both wiccans and Catholics in the family and believe you me I know what a big deal confirmation is. I am surprised you haven't be confirmed yet... Oh... I just re read... You must be kinda far from 18 huh. That sucks.
If you go to church with them it is just like anything else, go with a open mind and a open heart. I myself am not a catholic or even a christian at all but I love listening to the music. It calms my mind sometimes and even though that song may have a different meaning to me than them I am sure we both agree that it is wonderful and has a wonderful message. Don't go into it expecting a fight, don't go in abrasive, just go and feel love.
Bringing up witchcraft while living at home with religious parents and being a minor will be one of the toughest things you will do. They will either brush it off as some harmless phase or go buck wild on you. If you are afraid or feel like it will make a uncrossable gap between you then you should practice in the closet.
I know you want to be a proud pagan but the Goddess won't think you are denying her. She will embrace you as you seek more about the craft and learn more.
Anyway that's my honest opinion of it all. I think you will be fine. I know it is upsetting but try to calm down.
Maybe you should start with getting out of the confirmation before you gently tell them that your path is your own and you feel more connected to the pagan path.
I would first tell them "Mom, Dad I love you but I am not ready for confirmation. Please try to understand me and hear me out, and not judge or try to force me into confirmation. I know why it is important you, but I wouldn't feel good about myself if I did something I wasn't ready for. I know this might be hard and even hurtful to you but I am not ready".
Once you get that all out the way... which may take time, I myself was raised with both wiccans and Catholics in the family and believe you me I know what a big deal confirmation is. I am surprised you haven't be confirmed yet... Oh... I just re read... You must be kinda far from 18 huh. That sucks.
If you go to church with them it is just like anything else, go with a open mind and a open heart. I myself am not a catholic or even a christian at all but I love listening to the music. It calms my mind sometimes and even though that song may have a different meaning to me than them I am sure we both agree that it is wonderful and has a wonderful message. Don't go into it expecting a fight, don't go in abrasive, just go and feel love.
Bringing up witchcraft while living at home with religious parents and being a minor will be one of the toughest things you will do. They will either brush it off as some harmless phase or go buck wild on you. If you are afraid or feel like it will make a uncrossable gap between you then you should practice in the closet.
I know you want to be a proud pagan but the Goddess won't think you are denying her. She will embrace you as you seek more about the craft and learn more.
Anyway that's my honest opinion of it all. I think you will be fine. I know it is upsetting but try to calm down.
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BallisticJW
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:12 am
- Gender: Female
Re: Family--- The Ties That Bind and Gag
No problem! Come back and tell us what happens! Looking forward to seeing you more online!
Re: Family--- The Ties That Bind and Gag
Hey, I'd agree with a lot of the things that BJW said. And when it comes to 'understanding their perspective', please keep in mind that their religion effectively brainwashes its followers into believeing that a) magick is evil, b) witchcraft is the work of the devil, c) there is only one God, and he is male, and all powerful, and d) anyone who doesn't believe as they do is going someplace called Hell after they die. All that being said, maybe when you do start to talk about your choice to follow the pagan path, you can take it one point at a time.
Tell them that you still believe there is a god (if you do), but that your perception of god is just a little different and more inclusive. Tell them that magick is very much the same as visualising a positive outcome, like visualising making the winning shot at a sports game. Explain how the early Church fabricated a connection between the local witchcraft customs of the lands they conquered and their 'devil' to scare new christians into remaining in line. And tell them you choose to believe in reincarnation, rather than in hell (if you do so).
Take it slow, and approach it with a good mix of rationality and emotion. Let them see you're not jumping into something you haven't researched, but that it means a lot to you. You're not asking for permission or their blessing, just their respect of your choices. Keep behaving responsibly, and make sure you're ready to start telling them when you do.
Good luck, my friend. Goddess and God guide you, and light your way.
Tell them that you still believe there is a god (if you do), but that your perception of god is just a little different and more inclusive. Tell them that magick is very much the same as visualising a positive outcome, like visualising making the winning shot at a sports game. Explain how the early Church fabricated a connection between the local witchcraft customs of the lands they conquered and their 'devil' to scare new christians into remaining in line. And tell them you choose to believe in reincarnation, rather than in hell (if you do so).
Take it slow, and approach it with a good mix of rationality and emotion. Let them see you're not jumping into something you haven't researched, but that it means a lot to you. You're not asking for permission or their blessing, just their respect of your choices. Keep behaving responsibly, and make sure you're ready to start telling them when you do.
Good luck, my friend. Goddess and God guide you, and light your way.
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Brujita13
Re: Family--- The Ties That Bind and Gag
I appreciate the information, but I probably should have mentioned this before:
The nasty fight I mentioned earlier was over religion. That's why my books were maliciously destroyed. Please don't ask me for details about the argument.
The nasty fight I mentioned earlier was over religion. That's why my books were maliciously destroyed. Please don't ask me for details about the argument.
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BallisticJW
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:12 am
- Gender: Female
Re: Family--- The Ties That Bind and Gag
Awh Destroying of personal property isn't cool at all! Has anything changed? The more mature you are about how you feel and respecting them the more they will gradually get a better understanding of who you are. No matter what, even if you feel pushed beyond that point, don't cross the line and argue back at them. Just keep calm. I know it is hard to do when someone is trashing you to be the mature one but it will get better. No matter what, things always get better. I like what MAoi wrote on explaining your perception of God/dess versus theirs.
Maybe its better to wait until they calm down before you talk to them further about it all. But its kinda said this type of thing is still happening in 2011, esp when paganism is one of the largest religions in the United States and is currently the fastest growing religion. There is obviously something here. It should be respected.
I think it is because we don't have a traditional structure like so many other religions....
Destroying of personal property isn't cool at all! Has anything changed? The more mature you are about how you feel and respecting them the more they will gradually get a better understanding of who you are. No matter what, even if you feel pushed beyond that point, don't cross the line and argue back at them. Just keep calm. I know it is hard to do when someone is trashing you to be the mature one but it will get better. No matter what, things always get better. I like what MAoi wrote on explaining your perception of God/dess versus theirs. Maybe its better to wait until they calm down before you talk to them further about it all. But its kinda said this type of thing is still happening in 2011, esp when paganism is one of the largest religions in the United States and is currently the fastest growing religion. There is obviously something here. It should be respected.
I think it is because we don't have a traditional structure like so many other religions....
Re: Family--- The Ties That Bind and Gag
1) How to avoid Confirmation
---Simple and easy although it may not help with the conflict but confirmation is a personal choice to dedicate yourself to the religion. I was raised catholic and got confirmed wanting to please my family and grandmother although no one forced me to do it. I still feel it was a mistake because at the very start of my confirmation classes I knew I was pagan.
2) How to avoid and resolve conflict with my family
---Until they are ready to accept your decision then there will always be conflict its not avoidable you are doing good by keeping a low profile.
3) How to communicate with them in a manner that doesn't offend either party in ANY way.
---Speak to them as though you are an adult do not lose your temper. If they refuse to budge the say "I know we have a difference of opinion and belief and for now it will have to be left at that."
4) How to put it to them that I want to become vegetarian
---Not something most meat eating families like to hear. Tell them that it is a personal choice and there is nothing sinful about being a vegetarian and that vegetarians can be quite healthy.
5) How to understand their perspective
---They are your parents who raised you the thought you would turn out how they wanted you to but no one ever does. You are growing up and asserting the fact that you think for yourself and are not a carbon copy of them, its going to take them a while to get used to it.
6) How to practice my Faith without offending anybody
---Your family will still offended no matter what, but the biggest offense is if you were to stop practicing your beliefs, so don't stop. If your family doesn't want you performing magick inside the home don't, do it outside, at a park, where ever you can go easily (this is for eleborate rituals or workings) most magick is just every day life and they can't stop you from experiencing the beauty of the moon, the cleansing power of a bath, the healing power of the sun.
7) How to research the Craft without offending anybody
---Libraries and book stores, go hang out at one or two of these places and read there, take notes in a journal. (see more in the next answer)
8) How to put together a Book of Shadows
---Most witches/pagans use a simple journal such as a 3 ring binder. Its not blatenly pagan, and any sort of hand written code can keep others from discovering what it is about (just hide your code translator else where such as in a favorite book, or a school binder... could even make some art work out of it and tell your parents if they ask that its doodles.
9) How to be a productive member in the community and, by extension, the World.
---One of the best stories I have heard was called "Witch's Potion" Its the story of a christian who watched his/her friend, a wiccan make a "potion." The wiccan went around on the weekend volunteering at an animal shelter, soup kitchen, nursing home, and even delivered canned goods to a catholic church for their food drive. The wiccan was asked by the priest each time she went to help the church if she would reconsider joining the church each time her answer was "no" and that the earth was her church. He always sent her on her way saying something along the lines of "well go then child and help your fellow parishioners" as she continued with her day of volunteer work. (this story is paraphrased from the best of my memory) You are already volunteering in your community and staying away from things that can harm you and others (drugs and alcohol) I say you're already being a productive member.
10) How to come out of the Closet (Again) when I am 18 without upsetting them
---They will be upset no matter what if its not what they want. My mother is still upset 3 years after she found out. My father who suspected it for quite some time is alright with it, as long as I'm happy.
11) How to overcome my anger and bad feelings on my own
---why do you have anger and bad feelings? is it because of how your family views you and your beliefs? if so you just have to learn that you can't change them just as they can't change you and decide to live peacefully and remind yourself that you love each other.
12) How to conduct myself in a Catholic church
---I stopped taking communion, I did my sunday school lessons, and never talked back. I asked a lot of questions, most of them were never answered, just accept that the church doesn't have an answer for every thing and go about your day.
13) How to talk to them about both Wicca and Catholicism without an ugly fight ensuing
---Do this when you are not likely to be easily upset. (females avoid doing this when you are pmsing or dealing with pmdd.) Ask your parents to listen to you as you explain your beliefs and why you have chosen to step away from the beliefs of the catholic church. Before beginning ask them not to interrupt as you speak. Hand them a note pad each with a pen or pencil. Ask them to take notes and write their questions down. When you are done speaking have them ask a question at a time and explain it to the best of your abilities. (In all actuality things will not go according to plan) Let them know that you respect their beliefs and their teachings and ask them to respect yours.
14) How to help them understand my perspective (in a respectful and friendly manner)
---re read the answer above
15) How to enjoy the holidays with them
---Keep in mind that the majority of christian holidays were placed near/on pagan holidays as a way to make pagans feel better about the transition into christianity. A lot of modern pagans celebrate yule on christmas. The tree is a pagan thing, druids would take a tree hostage during the winter to ensure that spring would come. while the tree was in the home (if they brought it inside, some chose to leave it outside and still in the ground) would be decorated with garlands and sparkly things. Easter is nothing but Ostara with a christian theme attatched to it. Halloween (Samhain) has become a greeting card holiday, but "Day of the Dead" and "All Saints Day" are based on the idea of remembering your loved ones that have passed on as the year stars to close and a new year is beginning.
16) Some good beginner spells that don't require a lot of extras
---try chants, chants can be just as good as spells, they don't need a wand, athame, or spell book, they don't require full blown rituals, just a clear mind with your intent in your heart and the repetition of words you believe in.
---Simple and easy although it may not help with the conflict but confirmation is a personal choice to dedicate yourself to the religion. I was raised catholic and got confirmed wanting to please my family and grandmother although no one forced me to do it. I still feel it was a mistake because at the very start of my confirmation classes I knew I was pagan.
2) How to avoid and resolve conflict with my family
---Until they are ready to accept your decision then there will always be conflict its not avoidable you are doing good by keeping a low profile.
3) How to communicate with them in a manner that doesn't offend either party in ANY way.
---Speak to them as though you are an adult do not lose your temper. If they refuse to budge the say "I know we have a difference of opinion and belief and for now it will have to be left at that."
4) How to put it to them that I want to become vegetarian
---Not something most meat eating families like to hear. Tell them that it is a personal choice and there is nothing sinful about being a vegetarian and that vegetarians can be quite healthy.
5) How to understand their perspective
---They are your parents who raised you the thought you would turn out how they wanted you to but no one ever does. You are growing up and asserting the fact that you think for yourself and are not a carbon copy of them, its going to take them a while to get used to it.
6) How to practice my Faith without offending anybody
---Your family will still offended no matter what, but the biggest offense is if you were to stop practicing your beliefs, so don't stop. If your family doesn't want you performing magick inside the home don't, do it outside, at a park, where ever you can go easily (this is for eleborate rituals or workings) most magick is just every day life and they can't stop you from experiencing the beauty of the moon, the cleansing power of a bath, the healing power of the sun.
7) How to research the Craft without offending anybody
---Libraries and book stores, go hang out at one or two of these places and read there, take notes in a journal. (see more in the next answer)
8) How to put together a Book of Shadows
---Most witches/pagans use a simple journal such as a 3 ring binder. Its not blatenly pagan, and any sort of hand written code can keep others from discovering what it is about (just hide your code translator else where such as in a favorite book, or a school binder... could even make some art work out of it and tell your parents if they ask that its doodles.
9) How to be a productive member in the community and, by extension, the World.
---One of the best stories I have heard was called "Witch's Potion" Its the story of a christian who watched his/her friend, a wiccan make a "potion." The wiccan went around on the weekend volunteering at an animal shelter, soup kitchen, nursing home, and even delivered canned goods to a catholic church for their food drive. The wiccan was asked by the priest each time she went to help the church if she would reconsider joining the church each time her answer was "no" and that the earth was her church. He always sent her on her way saying something along the lines of "well go then child and help your fellow parishioners" as she continued with her day of volunteer work. (this story is paraphrased from the best of my memory) You are already volunteering in your community and staying away from things that can harm you and others (drugs and alcohol) I say you're already being a productive member.
10) How to come out of the Closet (Again) when I am 18 without upsetting them
---They will be upset no matter what if its not what they want. My mother is still upset 3 years after she found out. My father who suspected it for quite some time is alright with it, as long as I'm happy.
11) How to overcome my anger and bad feelings on my own
---why do you have anger and bad feelings? is it because of how your family views you and your beliefs? if so you just have to learn that you can't change them just as they can't change you and decide to live peacefully and remind yourself that you love each other.
12) How to conduct myself in a Catholic church
---I stopped taking communion, I did my sunday school lessons, and never talked back. I asked a lot of questions, most of them were never answered, just accept that the church doesn't have an answer for every thing and go about your day.
13) How to talk to them about both Wicca and Catholicism without an ugly fight ensuing
---Do this when you are not likely to be easily upset. (females avoid doing this when you are pmsing or dealing with pmdd.) Ask your parents to listen to you as you explain your beliefs and why you have chosen to step away from the beliefs of the catholic church. Before beginning ask them not to interrupt as you speak. Hand them a note pad each with a pen or pencil. Ask them to take notes and write their questions down. When you are done speaking have them ask a question at a time and explain it to the best of your abilities. (In all actuality things will not go according to plan) Let them know that you respect their beliefs and their teachings and ask them to respect yours.
14) How to help them understand my perspective (in a respectful and friendly manner)
---re read the answer above
15) How to enjoy the holidays with them
---Keep in mind that the majority of christian holidays were placed near/on pagan holidays as a way to make pagans feel better about the transition into christianity. A lot of modern pagans celebrate yule on christmas. The tree is a pagan thing, druids would take a tree hostage during the winter to ensure that spring would come. while the tree was in the home (if they brought it inside, some chose to leave it outside and still in the ground) would be decorated with garlands and sparkly things. Easter is nothing but Ostara with a christian theme attatched to it. Halloween (Samhain) has become a greeting card holiday, but "Day of the Dead" and "All Saints Day" are based on the idea of remembering your loved ones that have passed on as the year stars to close and a new year is beginning.
16) Some good beginner spells that don't require a lot of extras
---try chants, chants can be just as good as spells, they don't need a wand, athame, or spell book, they don't require full blown rituals, just a clear mind with your intent in your heart and the repetition of words you believe in.
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Brujita13
Re: Family--- The Ties That Bind and Gag
@ Zili: Wow! I'm impressed that you managed to cover everything mentioned on my list. That answers everything. Thank you and bright blessings.
Brujita13
Brujita13
Re: Family--- The Ties That Bind and Gag
You're welcome
I've been where you are, only my things weren't destroyed. Its still hard, every time my mother visits or i visit my family she has to say "are you thinking about being christian again? you know I still feel that you'll come back and I'll be praying for it."
I've been where you are, only my things weren't destroyed. Its still hard, every time my mother visits or i visit my family she has to say "are you thinking about being christian again? you know I still feel that you'll come back and I'll be praying for it."
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Brujita13
Re: Family--- The Ties That Bind and Gag
Your advice has been helpful in many ways, but the "Confirmation Noose" is starting to tighten again 
. Any advice? Please reply soon, Confirmation class sign-up is Sunday (Tomorrow). Anything that doesn't involve talking to my family would be ideal. Help!
Brujita13
P.S. Ordinarily I would be willing to consider talking to them, but I am still recovering from their latest "Wiccan-Bashing" (which was 3 days ago). Rest assured that this is out of necessity rather than laziness/stupidity.
. Any advice? Please reply soon, Confirmation class sign-up is Sunday (Tomorrow). Anything that doesn't involve talking to my family would be ideal. Help! Brujita13
P.S. Ordinarily I would be willing to consider talking to them, but I am still recovering from their latest "Wiccan-Bashing" (which was 3 days ago)
. Rest assured that this is out of necessity rather than laziness/stupidity.Re: Family--- The Ties That Bind and Gag
I would say tell the priest that you are not comfortable getting confirmed and why in confession maybe? He can't tell your family and at the same time might suggest to them you not be pushed into confirmation. I don't know if how the Catholic Church works so it might be good or bad.
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Brujita13
Re: Family--- The Ties That Bind and Gag
@ Ula:
Thank You! I really appreciate your advice. It was very helpful and things went FAR better than I had expected. I managed to get some important information that I had not heard of. First off, I just asked if it was alright to get confirmed just to please my family. To quote him: "Confirmation is a spiritual gift that one may choose to receive. If it is forced, then it is meaningless. But yes, you may choose to get confirmed in order to please your family." Questioning this, I resumed searching online. He was correct and I also read that "intent" is very important. So, I apparently made a mountain out of a mole hill, there. Thank you again and Blessed Be!
Brujita13
Thank You! I really appreciate your advice. It was very helpful and things went FAR better than I had expected. I managed to get some important information that I had not heard of. First off, I just asked if it was alright to get confirmed just to please my family. To quote him: "Confirmation is a spiritual gift that one may choose to receive. If it is forced, then it is meaningless. But yes, you may choose to get confirmed in order to please your family." Questioning this, I resumed searching online. He was correct and I also read that "intent" is very important. So, I apparently made a mountain out of a mole hill, there. Thank you again and Blessed Be!
Brujita13
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Brujita13
Re: Family--- The Ties That Bind and Gag
Lucky Break: Not only will I NOT be confirmed this year, I won't even be signed up for Confirmation classes! Isn't that great? The church I was going to be confirmed at requires my Baptismal Certificate, something that would be too difficult to access. Fortuna was (and is) watching me. 
Re: Family--- The Ties That Bind and Gag
Glad it's worked out for you. Sometimes you can use a religions rules against them.
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