What isn't Wicca

[Firebird]

I couldn't think of a good title.
Question is this:
I see so many people say, oh I'm a witch, but I'm not a Wiccan. What makes you not Wiccan?

I think the word gives people the willies or something, fearing fluffy bunnies, or new age lables.
It would seem if one was celebrating any of the 8 traditional Wiccan Holidays, then in some aspect they are following Wicca.

Are there other reasons? What are they?....

Bb, Firebird

[YanaKhan]

I am not Wiccan. I work with different deities, part of different pantheons and mix spellwork from different traditions. I celebrate some of the holidays Wiccans do, but I also celebrate holidays they don't.
I just don't feel Wicca is my religion. I feel Eastern traditions closer.

[Seraphin]

I am not Wiccan. I work with different deities, part of different pantheons and mix spellwork from different traditions. I celebrate some of the holidays Wiccans do, but I also celebrate holidays they don't.
I just don't feel Wicca is my religion. I feel Eastern traditions closer.

Ditto.

[Becks]

Hi Firebird. In reading your post I definitely know I have said this. Firstly, I would very much like to apologize if I have come off as rude about the terminology or somehow insensitive or even antagonistic. That has never been my intent. I come to my understanding of the term historically, but I would like to acknowledge that is not the only way to understand the term "Wicca". Language is indeed fluid. It is regional, and it is changing over time.

Gerald Gardner first used the term 'Wicca' in print in the early 50's. He sought to reclaim and revive old English practices of witchcraft. At that time in England witchcraft was still illegal. Gardner wanted a term other than "witch". "Witch" was considered to be quite loaded at that time. Gardner was looking for a term that would have a more positive association and appeal. Many sources say he used the word-which I think he understood to mean "wise people". It was said to come from old Anglo-Saxon roots. Wicca was masculine; while Wicce was feminine. Wiccan being the plural form.....It appears that the etymology of the word is not entirely agreed upon. Melissa Seims writes a great article about how Gardner understood the term versus how his contemporaries like Doreen Valiente wanted to use the term.

I think here is where we need to acknowledge the diversity of how words are used and how their meanings change over time. I personally interpret the use of word 'Wiccan' to refer to those that follow the practices as laid out by Gardner et al. I consider the term Wicca synonymous with the school of Gardnerian witchcraft, and those that adhere to it. Raymond Buckland was a student of Gardner, and so his practice would be Wiccan-that is as I understand it.

I do believe that now the term "Wicca" can mean something different for people. A good 60 years later I think the term has probably grown and others don't just look on it to mean "those that follow the Garnerian Tradition". I think there are probably a lot of people who are following a natural folk-type tradition that would identify themselves as Wiccan. In my case I would not.

How does that old saying go? My belief is thus: All Wiccans are witches, but not all witches are Wiccans. That is to say the Wiccan tradition has its roots in witchcraft, but not all people who practice-do so in the way that Gerald Gardner et al. wrote about.

I believe that Sabbats and Esbats apply to natural people the world over. Sabbats are solar in nature and would have been important days recognized by all peoples...the longest day....the shortest night.....the moons were given names by people since I'm sure we could speak....where I was born, the moon now is called S'kaagi Kun (the K should be underlined). It means "the moon of the dog salmon" commonly known as the pink salmon (Oncorhynchus gorbuscha).

Each moon is so called for an association about what is abundant or growing, or how darn cold it is, or even how dangerous the ocean is.....

For those of us in the northern hemisphere our solar and lunar cycles would be circling around similar themes of abundance, of light and of darkness...Lammas "loaf mass" is a harvest celebration. Where I live people are also harvesting, though it is not grain. At the heart of our practice is more similarity than dischord. At least as I see it.

I did not mean to imply judgement about practices when I say I am not Wiccan. I am not actively following a Gardnerian tradition. Therefore, what I do doesn't look like what a Wiccan (by my definition) would do. For example, I don't "cast a circle in the same way".

I appreciate this forum and the people in it. I respect the rules here, and the different ways people practice. I respect the knowledge of people who have been walking their path for longer than I have been walking mine. I like the way people keep a tone of respect and mindfulness here. If for one second I gave people another impression other than that-then I do genuinely apologize. I do hope that helps clear up my intent and what I have meant. Please let me know if you have any further concerns or questions. I would be delighted to try to clarify anything further if needed.

Be well,
Becks


I try to include references and here are a few online articles that mention most of the facts I have put fourth....

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=wicca
http://www.themystica.com/mystica/artic ... ald_b.html
http://www.thewica.co.uk/wica_or_wicca.htm by Melissa Seims

[Firebird]

I enjoy your posts Becks, no need to apologize! Though I do understand the word ...maybe more than some.
http://everythingunderthemoon.net/forum ... 22274.html
I myself do not identify as a Wiccan, though the path I follow looks very much like Wicca. For me the word is loaded with weirdness, but it most simply explains what I do. When someone asks me what I am I usually defer to that because it's easier for mortals to understand.
I'm just curious why so many...myself included, would rather not use the word even though many follow much of the practices within a Wiccan construct.
Bb, Firebird

[Becks]

Oh fantastic! I was heading to bed earlier when I remembered the use of the old word "quick" to mean "alive". I started to wonder if there was such a connection.....My family has northern English origins, and I was literally just researching the etymology of "cwic" or other spelling. Crazy! Love your post, and I'm glad it's been bumped up.

[theharmoniouscrow]

How does that old saying go? My belief is thus: All Wiccans are witches, but not all witches are Wiccans. That is to say the Wiccan tradition has its roots in witchcraft, but not all people who practice-do so in the way that Gerald Gardner et al. wrote about.

Well, Becks, you have ONCE AGAIN been a fountain of information and have clarified a question that was sliding around in the back of my mind for a while now, after stepping onto this Path.
Thank you!

[Becks]

You're very welcome Harmoniouscrow. Though please keep in mind there's several folks who don't see things the way I do, and use the term 'Wicca' differently.

[theharmoniouscrow]

You're very welcome Harmoniouscrow. Though please keep in mind there's several folks who don't see things the way I do, and use the term 'Wicca' differently.

Of course - there are multiple ways of thinking of everything these days. I just wanted to say that I agree with what you are saying.

[Firebird]

So many people follow the cycle of the year, have annual celebrations on any of the eight holidays, utilize elements, believe in a Goddess and a God or a greater pantheon etc...
That's what I don't get. Why are some so opposed to the word? I don't even get why I don't like it.
I have heard so many definitions of a witch, but the one I hear most frequently would basically boil down to a spellworker who doesn't call on any deities nor necessarily cast a circle.

All Wiccans are witches, but not all witches are Wiccans.

yeah...Unfortunately that doesn't even apply anymore, as there are now people who follow the wiccan cycle of the year with Christian, or Jewish view and do not call themselves witches
Bb, Firebird

[Einarr]

So many people follow the cycle of the year, have annual celebrations on any of the eight holidays, utilize elements, believe in a Goddess and a God or a greater pantheon etc...
That's what I don't get. Why are some so opposed to the word? I don't even get why I don't like it.

I'm probably opposed to it because I relate it to religion. I have no issue with others paths whether connected to a religion or not. I personally want to believe and practice the way I feel lead spiritually to do so without following a manual written by someone else. Maybe that's just the rebel in me, but that's where I'm at presently in my journey.

[Becks]

I love this discussion!

I do not consider myself 'wiccan' for the reasons I laid out, but like you have clearly said in other threads-people can self-identify as they see fit. That's one of the things that's so great about this path. That is also what makes having a conversation about these topics like herding cats.

In my opinion and study, acknowledging the natural cycle of the year isn't purely a Wiccan concept. Using the Gardnerian lexicon in addition to doing it in the way laid out by him would be. Everything is so entwined and the ideas permeate present day paganism and witchcraft because the lines are blurred. I use the the "common language" to relate to other people about these common themes so that I can better connect with others. It's a great vehicle for that. These paths are so diverse and intensely personal how do we bridge that gap? How do we share ideas?

Do I personally oppose the term? No. I simply don't place myself under its umbrella because I feel that I don't fit within what I consider to be Wicca's aqueous mold.

[Becks]

Yes it does apply. Yule and Christmas fall on the same week. You going to call me Christian when I am not too? What balls. Why do you get to tell people what their religion is again?

Hi Holdasown, I'm just wanting to clarify what you mean by this? I certainly don't think that was the spirit of what was said. We're just conversing here and I don't think anybody is trying to impose anything on another...I just want to better understand what you mean. Thanks!

[Firebird]

Yes it does apply. Yule and Christmas fall on the same week. You going to call me Christian when I am not too? What balls. Why do you get to tell people what their religion is again?

Yikes Holdasown, I certainly don't mean to upset you.
I'm just trying to figure out why people don't like the word....
How Christmas and Jul falling in the same week is telling you what your religion is I don't follow.
Bb, Firebird

[Xiao Rong]

So many people follow the cycle of the year, have annual celebrations on any of the eight holidays, utilize elements, believe in a Goddess and a God or a greater pantheon etc...
That's what I don't get. Why are some so opposed to the word? I don't even get why I don't like it.
I have heard so many definitions of a witch, but the one I hear most frequently would basically boil down to a spellworker who doesn't call on any deities nor necessarily cast a circle.

All Wiccans are witches, but not all witches are Wiccans.

yeah...Unfortunately that doesn't even apply anymore, as there are now people who follow the wiccan cycle of the year with Christian, or Jewish view and do not call themselves witches
Bb, Firebird

Yes it does apply. Yule and Christmas fall on the same week. You going to call me Christian when I am not too? What balls. Why do you get to tell people what their religion is again?

Agreed with Becks, I don't think this is what FF was saying at all, and this thread was generally pretty civil. Please remember to be respectful of each other in forum discussions. Thanks.